#German-speaking people of the fediverse:
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#German-speaking people of the fediverse:
Can any of you explain why you have two words for "execute"; "hinrichten" and "abrichten"? And if there is any difference in the etymology of the words?
Why am I wondering? Because Norwegian has inherited both words from German and this bothers me.
Abrichten is used for a wood shaping technology and the engine used for it. Sorry, the artikle is missing in bokmål.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer -
Abrichten is used for a wood shaping technology and the engine used for it. Sorry, the artikle is missing in bokmål.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer@tutnich_zursache hmm, so my sources on the etymology of avrette=>abrichten is wrong.
Hmm...
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#German-speaking people of the fediverse:
Can any of you explain why you have two words for "execute"; "hinrichten" and "abrichten"? And if there is any difference in the etymology of the words?
Why am I wondering? Because Norwegian has inherited both words from German and this bothers me.
@atlefren ah, I saw and answered the other one first.
First: abrichten does not mean execute.
Second: in German there are incredibly many words. Compared to Norwegian I think there are often much more nuanced words for the "same" thing, that can be either used interchangeably or differenciate much better than in Norwegian. So having two different words in German for sth that only has one word in Norwegian is quite common, I believe.
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@scy hmm this is strange:
Both "henrette" and "avrette" means execute in Norwegian, although "avrette" more commonly is used to "level (a floor).
And this dictionary claims "avrette" comes from the German "abrichten":
https://naob.no/ordbok/avrette@atlefren Well it also says "sjelden"
I suspect what's going on here, especially with the example of "afrette en synder", is that it's a somewhat archaic specialized form of "richten" ("to judge").
The prefix "ab-" (probably somewhat equivalent to English "off-") can imply some finality, closure, an ending. I could see how convicting ("richten") someone to be punished by death could've been called "abrichten" at some point, but no German would use it like that today, or even understand it.
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@atlefren ah, I saw and answered the other one first.
First: abrichten does not mean execute.
Second: in German there are incredibly many words. Compared to Norwegian I think there are often much more nuanced words for the "same" thing, that can be either used interchangeably or differenciate much better than in Norwegian. So having two different words in German for sth that only has one word in Norwegian is quite common, I believe.
Hmm. But what bothers me is that Norwegian have two words that are similar, but not very similar. One of them (henrette) means execute. The other (avrette) means either execute or level. Although the former is an older meaning I guess.
And here I am, trying to figure out why we have two words for "execute". And the dictionaries "blame" both words on German. Which seems to be wrong. And I am further from an answer...
But thanks for answering!
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@tutnich_zursache hmm, so my sources on the etymology of avrette=>abrichten is wrong.
Hmm...
@atlefren
Jeg taler kun dansk men ingen norsk, så jeg ved ikke hvis det hjælpe:
Den dansk ord afrette=abrichten.
Her er en billede af min gamle Gyldendals.Is there maybe a second meaning of
"avrette"? -
@tutnich_zursache hmm, so my sources on the etymology of avrette=>abrichten is wrong.
Hmm...
@atlefren could be the etymology is right, but that the Norwegians at some point added the additional meaning to it, possibly by extensive misuse, confusing it with "henrette"? @tutnich_zursache
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@atlefren could be the etymology is right, but that the Norwegians at some point added the additional meaning to it, possibly by extensive misuse, confusing it with "henrette"? @tutnich_zursache
@eivind @tutnich_zursache now there is a theory!
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@atlefren Well it also says "sjelden"
I suspect what's going on here, especially with the example of "afrette en synder", is that it's a somewhat archaic specialized form of "richten" ("to judge").
The prefix "ab-" (probably somewhat equivalent to English "off-") can imply some finality, closure, an ending. I could see how convicting ("richten") someone to be punished by death could've been called "abrichten" at some point, but no German would use it like that today, or even understand it.
@atlefren Also, Germans say "ausrichten", not "abrichten" when we mean "to align" (e.g. a wall, or tiling, or maybe a floor).
Not sure whether the Norwegian equivalent of "ab-" and "aus-" is both "av-", I don't speak Norwegian.
Also: The etymology section on that dictionary entry is spanning all three meanings, which I find somewhat doubtful. Like, yes, the "animal training" meaning certainly relates to German "abrichten", but the other two might've developed a life of their own in Norwegian.
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@atlefren could be the etymology is right, but that the Norwegians at some point added the additional meaning to it, possibly by extensive misuse, confusing it with "henrette"? @tutnich_zursache
@eivind @atlefren @tutnich_zursache I also suspect that. But I'm not an etymologist.
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@eivind @atlefren @tutnich_zursache I also suspect that. But I'm not an etymologist.
@eivind @atlefren @tutnich_zursache I mean, this would not be the only time Norwegians implement German words in a different meaning (see the meaning of Vorspiel/Nachspiel).
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@eivind @atlefren @tutnich_zursache I mean, this would not be the only time Norwegians implement German words in a different meaning (see the meaning of Vorspiel/Nachspiel).
@jhamre @eivind @atlefren @tutnich_zursache Avretting is also used for woodworking in Norwegian, as well as the action of needing to level something (like floors). Avrettingshøvel, avrettingsmasse, osv.
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@jhamre @eivind @atlefren @tutnich_zursache Avretting is also used for woodworking in Norwegian, as well as the action of needing to level something (like floors). Avrettingshøvel, avrettingsmasse, osv.
@tanketom @jhamre @eivind @atlefren @tutnich_zursache never underestimate the pure chaos of inter-germanic borrowed words and their distorted meanings, I guess.
