In April 1994 I started working on the Opera browser with Geir Iversøy, my co-founder.
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@Ketakater @jon @Vivaldi Not exactly: they take the Chromium codebase and pull out all the tracking and other nasty code parts from it (as far as it is possible without making it break), before they add their own code.
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@Ketakater @jon @Vivaldi Not exactly: they take the Chromium codebase and pull out all the tracking and other nasty code parts from it (as far as it is possible without making it break), before they add their own code.
@TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi but that relies on Google's permission to do that, right?
What if they pull the plug?
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@TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi but that relies on Google's permission to do that, right?
What if they pull the plug?
@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi
Then Google would be in breach of the Chromium licence. Now, since Google enjoys practical immunity that doesn't matter much, but it would be irrational of Google, since the Chromium codebase is what makes them control Microsoft's browser offering too. It would be strategically shooting themselves in the foot. (Not something which always has dissuaded corporations, but...) Anyway, that would lead to browser makers banding together to maintain Chromium. Remember, Chromium was forked from a community project in the first place.
My two eurocents is that in addition to the above note of the Vivaldi team ripping out some malfeatures, nothing is black and white. If you use Firefox, you are using a code base funded by Google too, since more than 80% of Mozilla corp's income comes from Google. If you want to support the open web by using a non-Google browser, it makes no sense using a browser from the controlled opposition. And then, if you want to use sites like your bank or popular media, then you're left with practically nothing.
To me, Vivaldi is a pragmatic and better solution than running e.g. Firefox these days. It's not perfect, it doesn't pass every purity test, but it's a good browser and the team seems to have their hearts in the right place.
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Here is the point. Unlike most that have an opinion on this, I have actually built a browser from scratch. Did that with Opera. Realistically we could not do that today. Would require too much resources and take too long. Then we would have to deal with compatibility issues.
There are really only two other alternatives when it comes to code. Use Webkit or Gecko. That would be a larger risk and we would not be any less reliant on Apple or Google.
The way for us to have the most impact is to continue to build based on Chromium. Over time we will be able to have a bigger impact as well.
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Here is the point. Unlike most that have an opinion on this, I have actually built a browser from scratch. Did that with Opera. Realistically we could not do that today. Would require too much resources and take too long. Then we would have to deal with compatibility issues.
There are really only two other alternatives when it comes to code. Use Webkit or Gecko. That would be a larger risk and we would not be any less reliant on Apple or Google.
The way for us to have the most impact is to continue to build based on Chromium. Over time we will be able to have a bigger impact as well.
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@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi
Then Google would be in breach of the Chromium licence. Now, since Google enjoys practical immunity that doesn't matter much, but it would be irrational of Google, since the Chromium codebase is what makes them control Microsoft's browser offering too. It would be strategically shooting themselves in the foot. (Not something which always has dissuaded corporations, but...) Anyway, that would lead to browser makers banding together to maintain Chromium. Remember, Chromium was forked from a community project in the first place.
My two eurocents is that in addition to the above note of the Vivaldi team ripping out some malfeatures, nothing is black and white. If you use Firefox, you are using a code base funded by Google too, since more than 80% of Mozilla corp's income comes from Google. If you want to support the open web by using a non-Google browser, it makes no sense using a browser from the controlled opposition. And then, if you want to use sites like your bank or popular media, then you're left with practically nothing.
To me, Vivaldi is a pragmatic and better solution than running e.g. Firefox these days. It's not perfect, it doesn't pass every purity test, but it's a good browser and the team seems to have their hearts in the right place.
@Lemmus @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi thanks for the detailed reasoning. Appreciated
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@TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi but that relies on Google's permission to do that, right?
What if they pull the plug?
@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi if Google pulled the plug, then the US antitrust (cartel) office would immediately break up the monopoly. Chromium being open is Google's way of being allowed to totally dominate the browser market share
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@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi if Google pulled the plug, then the US antitrust (cartel) office would immediately break up the monopoly. Chromium being open is Google's way of being allowed to totally dominate the browser market share
@WildEnte @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi I see. Thing is, I'm not sure how reliable US institutions will be going forward.
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In April 1994 I started working on the Opera browser with Geir Iversøy, my co-founder. I worked at Opera for 17 years, leaving it after disagreeing with investors about the way forward. Two years later I co-founded @Vivaldi with Tatsuki Tomita and Anne Stavnes. This was in 2013.
For more than 30 years we have provided alternatives to Big Tech. First with Opera and now with Vivaldi. The focus has always been quite different from our competitors. More features, more privacy, more flexibility. Lately it has also meant the choice to avoid things like Crypto and Blockchain, avoid integrating AI and avoid integrating surveillance. This is not given. Most of our competitors are building in one or more of the above.
If you like what we are doing and our stand, feel free to download Vivaldi. If you are already with us, please tell your friends.
#Vivaldi #EU #Europa #Technology #Browser #Windows #Macos #Linux #Android #IOS #Automotive #Computer
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@WildEnte @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi I see. Thing is, I'm not sure how reliable US institutions will be going forward.
@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi (too) powerful corporations are a threat to any government. I'm not worried about that part
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@Ketakater @TritTriton @jon @Vivaldi (too) powerful corporations are a threat to any government. I'm not worried about that part
@WildEnte only as long as there is an actual gouvernment
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@WildEnte only as long as there is an actual gouvernment
@Ketakater the choice of browsers is really not the biggest issue in that scenario
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In April 1994 I started working on the Opera browser with Geir Iversøy, my co-founder. I worked at Opera for 17 years, leaving it after disagreeing with investors about the way forward. Two years later I co-founded @Vivaldi with Tatsuki Tomita and Anne Stavnes. This was in 2013.
For more than 30 years we have provided alternatives to Big Tech. First with Opera and now with Vivaldi. The focus has always been quite different from our competitors. More features, more privacy, more flexibility. Lately it has also meant the choice to avoid things like Crypto and Blockchain, avoid integrating AI and avoid integrating surveillance. This is not given. Most of our competitors are building in one or more of the above.
If you like what we are doing and our stand, feel free to download Vivaldi. If you are already with us, please tell your friends.
#Vivaldi #EU #Europa #Technology #Browser #Windows #Macos #Linux #Android #IOS #Automotive #Computer
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Here is the point. Unlike most that have an opinion on this, I have actually built a browser from scratch. Did that with Opera. Realistically we could not do that today. Would require too much resources and take too long. Then we would have to deal with compatibility issues.
There are really only two other alternatives when it comes to code. Use Webkit or Gecko. That would be a larger risk and we would not be any less reliant on Apple or Google.
The way for us to have the most impact is to continue to build based on Chromium. Over time we will be able to have a bigger impact as well.
@jon @Ketakater @Vivaldi Thank you for the reply, appreciated.
While Mozilla's funding is rather non-diverse, wouldn't Gecko still be a notably smaller reliance (more like dependence) on Google? -
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@Ketakater the choice of browsers is really not the biggest issue in that scenario
@WildEnte not in the US, no
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@jon @Ketakater @Vivaldi Thank you for the reply, appreciated.
While Mozilla's funding is rather non-diverse, wouldn't Gecko still be a notably smaller reliance (more like dependence) on Google?I would say that the reliance is just different.
For us we are trying to do the best we can. We evaluated the options available to us and we found Chromium to be the best one for us, where we can make the most difference over time. It was not an easy decision and I would have preferred for us to have our own codebase written from scratch, but that is just not realistic. Every other codebase we had to choose between had risks and we felt Chromium was the least risky, base d on our own experience of writing the code from scratch and our experience competing in the browser market.
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@tanepiper @jon @Vivaldi The Arc team created another browser, Dia. Not sure if they will add features to Arc.
I believe The Browser Company has ceased feature development on Arc, with only security and bug-fixing updates going forward
https://oviyabalan.medium.com/tldr-arc-browsers-future-3d392cc91172
In short, as someone who once waited for Arc eagerly, for them to pull the plug near-immediately in favour of "AI" bullshit is a smack in the face
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In April 1994 I started working on the Opera browser with Geir Iversøy, my co-founder. I worked at Opera for 17 years, leaving it after disagreeing with investors about the way forward. Two years later I co-founded @Vivaldi with Tatsuki Tomita and Anne Stavnes. This was in 2013.
For more than 30 years we have provided alternatives to Big Tech. First with Opera and now with Vivaldi. The focus has always been quite different from our competitors. More features, more privacy, more flexibility. Lately it has also meant the choice to avoid things like Crypto and Blockchain, avoid integrating AI and avoid integrating surveillance. This is not given. Most of our competitors are building in one or more of the above.
If you like what we are doing and our stand, feel free to download Vivaldi. If you are already with us, please tell your friends.
#Vivaldi #EU #Europa #Technology #Browser #Windows #Macos #Linux #Android #IOS #Automotive #Computer
@jon Happy to see this the first thing after I install Vivaldi. I'll see what good Vivaldi brings.
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In April 1994 I started working on the Opera browser with Geir Iversøy, my co-founder. I worked at Opera for 17 years, leaving it after disagreeing with investors about the way forward. Two years later I co-founded @Vivaldi with Tatsuki Tomita and Anne Stavnes. This was in 2013.
For more than 30 years we have provided alternatives to Big Tech. First with Opera and now with Vivaldi. The focus has always been quite different from our competitors. More features, more privacy, more flexibility. Lately it has also meant the choice to avoid things like Crypto and Blockchain, avoid integrating AI and avoid integrating surveillance. This is not given. Most of our competitors are building in one or more of the above.
If you like what we are doing and our stand, feel free to download Vivaldi. If you are already with us, please tell your friends.
#Vivaldi #EU #Europa #Technology #Browser #Windows #Macos #Linux #Android #IOS #Automotive #Computer
