Generative AI is a Faustian bargain.
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A part of getting better at programming is learning how to get more done with less code. Using AI removes the incentive to learn how to create this leverage.
I agree that typing less is a benefit.
But most people learned math by doing basic addition and multiplication a bunch, it works the same with programming.@wilkuu @benlockwood now you're conflating two things: memorization and growth.
For growth we can already agree that diversification and exploration are very important which AI tools absolutely enable.
For memorization blind repetition is not the way to go either. The most effective memorization strategy rn is spaced repetition and you might hit that with writing same code over and over but you can also hit it (even better) by writing the same code ever 2 days or even less often.
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Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.
@benlockwood@ecoevo.social la peau de chagrin, the one ring…
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Sounds like you already have other ways of managing ADHD that work for you. That's cool.
I don't think it's the right assistive device for every case.
In my case, though, it works very well. I did have a stage early on where I'd get distracted playing with the AI, but once that got boring, no problems.
Managing ADHD is a skill, just like one's health or fitness. By offloading the development of this skill to AI, you're worsening your symptoms over time.
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@benlockwood I don't think that's necessarily true.
Sure if you don't ride the bike every day you're worse bike rider but finishing races also makes you a better bike rider.
I'm a senior dev and consider myself a good'ish coder and while LLMs do make me worse at memorizing APIs I ship so much more which on it's own a very useful skill to train.
At the end of the day it's just another computer. If you use the one that's in your skull as well then you'll be just perfectly fine.
@wraptile @benlockwood I don’t know man, it feels a bit sad that to compare your brain to « just another computer », or that shipping more code would have anything to do with realizing your potential on this earth.
When it comes to growing as a person, we all know that the quest is what really matters.
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@wilkuu @benlockwood now you're conflating two things: memorization and growth.
For growth we can already agree that diversification and exploration are very important which AI tools absolutely enable.
For memorization blind repetition is not the way to go either. The most effective memorization strategy rn is spaced repetition and you might hit that with writing same code over and over but you can also hit it (even better) by writing the same code ever 2 days or even less often.
I feel like I am underestimating how repetitive the codebases you work on are.
But personally, I get enough novel problems in programming where there is little repetition and I get to learn new patterns.I am quite young so I might have not reached the ceiling you might be encountering.
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@wraptile @benlockwood I don’t know man, it feels a bit sad that to compare your brain to « just another computer », or that shipping more code would have anything to do with realizing your potential on this earth.
When it comes to growing as a person, we all know that the quest is what really matters.
@Minos @benlockwood your brain is absolute a computer _but_ also more than a computer.
And I didn't say "ship more code" but _create more_ to the very end where it's more than just exploration of an idea but a full product. Finishing stuff matters. Diversity of experience matters.
AI tools absolutely great for this unless you don't know how to use them or too weak willed/unfortunate enough to get caught by sub-optimal paths which is absolutely a valid and real issue for some.
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Managing ADHD is a skill, just like one's health or fitness. By offloading the development of this skill to AI, you're worsening your symptoms over time.
@corigan01 @benlockwood If I were resorting to it constantly, I might agree, but I'm not. It's a last resort for really bad days. (And to be clear, I'm not a classic ADHD case; I'm borderline but with other shit going on, as well).
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@jack it was hard to read this without hearing echoes of all the ways using accessibility tools and adaptations are treated as “accepting weakness,” “giving up”, etc even though I’m sure that’s not what @benlockwood was thinking about
Oh, for sure.
We're not used to thinking of mental stuff as benefiting from assistive devices or prostheses the way we are with physical disabilities.
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Muscles are not your brain, you give up your humanity when you use AI.
It's a metaphore... Also, you should stop using the contact list in your phone, since if you don't spend time remembering phone numbers, you give up your humanity.
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It's a metaphore... Also, you should stop using the contact list in your phone, since if you don't spend time remembering phone numbers, you give up your humanity.
@tylnesh @benlockwood I understand its a metaphor, however, I am saying it misses the point of the argument being made.
I don't agree the contacts list on my phone and an AI are the same magnitude of thing.
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AI != Riding a bike
@corigan01 @wraptile @benlockwood AI = Self-Driving Car where you lose your skills and abilities because you hand it all over to a machine.
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@corigan01 @wraptile @benlockwood AI = Self-Driving Car where you lose your skills and abilities because you hand it all over to a machine.
@rasterweb @corigan01 @benlockwood maybe in 10 years or so but you still need to do plenty of driving right now to get anywhere.
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It's a metaphore... Also, you should stop using the contact list in your phone, since if you don't spend time remembering phone numbers, you give up your humanity.
@tylnesh @corigan01 @benlockwood Confusing memorization with actual learning is part of what has gotten us in the mess we are in now.
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@rasterweb @corigan01 @benlockwood maybe in 10 years or so but you still need to do plenty of driving right now to get anywhere.
@wraptile @corigan01 @benlockwood Alternately you can ride a bike to many places.
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@wraptile @corigan01 @benlockwood Alternately you can ride a bike to many places.
@rasterweb @corigan01 @benlockwood Yeah but a more modern form of transportation will get you much further
all fun aside, these analogies are a good reminder that there are no really new problems here and we'll defeat them all the same!
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Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.
That's overstating it a bit.
Is it great? No.
Do some folks use it? Yes.
Do some folks have good use cases for it? Yes.
Is their *humanity* diminished?C'mon, now.
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Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.
@benlockwood @Gargron Depends on how you use it. I think it makes me better because I let AI organize my files and deal with mundane task management, giving me more time for my hobbies and creative pursuits.
Let the robot do the robot stuff, and free up the humans to do more humane things.
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Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.
@benlockwood this comment section has given me so many valuable lessons in blocking before arguing with unaware people. Thank you.
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@rasterweb @corigan01 @benlockwood Yeah but a more modern form of transportation will get you much further
all fun aside, these analogies are a good reminder that there are no really new problems here and we'll defeat them all the same!
@wraptile @rasterweb @benlockwood like maybe a train/tram?
I love riding my bike, then getting on my bike accessable tram, and finally getting back on my bike once at my desired stop. I can get quite far in very little time!
Hopefully you aren't trying to imply a car here...
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Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.
@benlockwood We've been doing faustian bargain with stuff that weaken us since the wheel was invented and probably way longer before that. AI is just the latest in a very, very long list.
