Are social networks unhealthy for minors?
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@dick_turpin not me! I am a one-strike blocker. If I find myself typing something angry at someone, I stop myself and block instead. (Usually.)
@evan Ah, the old Knee-jerk reaction, aye?
Christ, how have we managed to stay friends for eighteen years?
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@evan fedi has a particularly viscious streak in general rn imo, im actually struggling to reccomend it to anyone
@kim I get it; it's a tough time in the world and people see it as a way to blow off steam. Blocking is good, modeling good behaviour is good. We can get there.
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(1/2) @evan I've always opposed sanitizing the world for kids.
They *will* get online & find stuff. I did (just w/BBS's!).I *am* sure so-called “social media” *is* toxic for kids. Heck:it's toxic for most adults.
But age verification laws'll put 16 yr olds into business of making fake ids for 10 yr olds.
My mother read Tipper Gore's book & Destroyed all my #punk tapes.
Lars brought me his to school to listen to free.
& the censorship made me an activist for life. So, maybe upsides?
#EvanPoll(2/2) I think often about this old #JelloBiafra spoken word piece as these #AgeVerification laws have been suddenly moving rapidly:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1qOBOooFbHY&t=13m3s
My favorite part: “If [my] child… brought home something…harmful to their emotional growth…like, say, the film _Top Gun_…or a Sammy Hagar album…I wouldn't hit the roof & grab the whole thing away…I'd [instead] sit down with the kid [& ask]: “Tell me why you like it? … [I'll listen then] I'll tell you why I don't like it” -
@red_the_bean My blocklist is not a democracy. You don't get a vote. My attention is my exclusive resource to control.
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@evan Yes, but mostly because creating safe digital spaces for minors is difficult. You need crack moderation teams and robust digital safety plans, as well as actually having their best interests at heart. Very difficult goal to align with those of for-profit companies, extremely difficult to implement by independent groups due to lack of funding. Not to mention the tension that anonymity protects but many protective measures require at least the identification that a user is a minor.
We choose to go to the moon in this decade, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.
We, the human race, especially in the western, in the northern, world have got faaaaar too soft. Too often we see challenges as something to be avoided, rather than to be met head on, and to overcome.
I'm positive the expansion of The Internet, of Social Media has been a factor in that.... I would even not be surprised by evidence that those who created these Social Media's did so at least in part to help make us softer, make us more challenge averse....
Though I may be getting into Tinfoil Hat territory......
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We can't. It's one of those inevitable tragedies of life.
All we can hope to achieve is to provide them with the tools to defend themselves against threats we probably haven't imagined yet.
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@evan Ah, the old Knee-jerk reaction, aye?
Christ, how have we managed to stay friends for eighteen years?
@dick_turpin I kind of feel like it's better than saying something I'll regret later.
I also regularly go through my blocklist and if I can't remember why I blocked someone, I unblock them. So it's more like a cooling-off period.
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@dick_turpin I kind of feel like it's better than saying something I'll regret later.
I also regularly go through my blocklist and if I can't remember why I blocked someone, I unblock them. So it's more like a cooling-off period.
@evan Given mine is populated with folk who can't control themselves even after, in some cases, being told they're crossing the line, I can't see myself un-muting anyone any time soon, which is a shame as there are at least two people on there I was originally friends with, but they decided to turn on me for some reason.
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the problem is "social media" algos. they intentionally fuck with us for profit. bad for everyone but kids are less prepared for manipulation and their brains are still changing. beyond the personal, taken together, they also have a societal impact.
I think staying connected to people they know IRL via "social networking" tools is great for minors. and I think a purely reverse chronological feed without ads is a better way to get news for everyone.
I hope we can make the distinction.
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@evan Social networks are not unhealthy, but the most common type of social networks, the ones designed to harvest attention, are unhealthy. I would, reluctantly, allow my child to use Mastodon when she is old enough for it. But I don't like her to have any interaction with Instagram, TikTok and similar.
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@evan No, but.
Social networkds are necessary for humans, and that is precisely what makes the abuse of "social networks" by bad actors all levels from local bully to megacorporation so pernicious.
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@evan I answered Yes, but. I think rather than social networks in their entirety it is algorithms designed to encourage addiction and amplifying harmful content that are most unhealthy (for everyone not just minors).
@alpinefolk @evan 100% agree!
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@evan One of those extremely loaded questions where I'd normally say "Technically yes but there's A LOT more nuance" to most people, but "No and I hope someone spits in your coffee, good day sir" to think tanks and lobby groups.
Shortest pitch I can throw? On one hand, we NEED spaces for youth to interact with, well, anyone. On the other, profit-minded, rage-baiting, shorthand media (or even just... shorthand media like here, albeit better) isn't the right tool IMO.
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@evan I also think they are unhealthy for adults and should be regulated to remove all targeted adds and user data collection. Also platforms should not pay content creators directly.
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@evan @cubicgarden *yes but* most social media platforms are also unhealthy for adults.
Social networks are offline too.
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@evan I don't know. I think they certainly can be, but it depends on the age of the kid and their situation. There are queer kids with bigoted parents who can only find support online. There are also kids who get harassed and bullied to the point where they harm themselves. I don't think there's an easy answer.
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@resl You don't see how I conflate the two. They are separate in my mind, to the best of my own knowledge. What I do see is that the culture and norms many of us have learned on the commecial platforms, and that are perhaps even independent of them, like posing, self-obsessive thought, lots of anxious mind-reading of others and popularity contests, they exist here too. @evan
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Ever have a glass of wine?
Alcohol is toxic to every human tissue, but we put in place precautions... We rigorously regulate the production, distribution, sale, and consumption of it. We have medical interventions for its abuse. We attach social stigma to those who purposefully abuse it.
We do ZERO of those things to social media, despite knowing that, especially in terms of mental health it can be as bad or worse for especially young people than alcohol and or drug abuse.....
So, yeah. Sometimes people choose to do things that are "bad" for them, but they can make informed decisions.
Social Media has suffered few if any of the oversights, restrictions, repercussions, as other harmful activities.
It's well past time we started.
@ClintonAnderson Thank you, that builds nicely on where I was going. I agree it would be helpful to have more support to use any social network appropriately. @evan
