Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber?
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson I wonder if the days of online social media of any kind may be drawing to a close. The notions that these spaces provide a form of authentic community, or impart a meaningful sense of solidarity, are being revealed as illusions. And that may be no bad thing.
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@fabrice hence the need for precise terms
@Aurimas well guess who's always forgetting the training costs?
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@scottjenson @Gargron There is nothing, absolutely nothing, stopping anyone from creating and cultivating an AI community on Mastodon. Start a server. Knock yourself out.
But expecting to *farm acceptance* from a group of people, one which most members vastly dislike AI, is quite the hubris.
But sure, the community at large is the problem.
Clean up your kitchen and maybe folks will join you for a meal.
@FeloniousPunk @scottjenson @Gargron Adopting an attitude of persecution as primarily white dude tech bros akin to the abusive experience of Black Twitter on Fedi is...a choice.
Crying that no one wants to play with you because the entire industry is abusive AF and literally nobody in the wider fediverse wants it forced on us is HILARIOUS.
Go away, weirdo.
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@aura i don't understand where being white factors in.
to be completely clear about the point i'm making, the group of "AI users" as of April 2026 is broad and currently includes people of color, disadvantaged, and other traditionally marginalized people. i know this because i work with them.
in the context of this thread, what i'm wondering is whether the people who would exclude "AI users" from their community here mean that to include these groups, as well.
you are trans. i am interested in your point of view on this.
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@toddsundsted @scottjenson @Gargron "AI people" is a very vague group. Quite a bit of AI discussion is hype and mis/dis-info and I don't think needs to be coddled here (just as we shouldn't tolerate puppy killers or fascists, even if they're from marginalized groups). Tho there are many shades of gray and I think it's also fair to say some AI discussion is non-hype/mis/dis-info. But my main point is that welcoming marginalized groups should be the focus, not opinions about AI
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@scottjenson @Gargron I'd have to ask, what value would an an AI Booster community bring to the FediVerse?
@cratermoon @scottjenson @Gargron
“AI” isn’t even a thing. It’s an all encompassing marketing term. It’s meaningless. -
Is #mastodon becoming an echo chamber? This post from @carnage4life has me questioning our community. The Mastodon team is finally getting some traction, the product improvements are increasing, The #UX is improving, yet people posting on multiple platforms are making comments like this. It's confusing.
I *know* people here don't want this to be a classic social media-clone but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!
@scottjenson @carnage4life Not sure anyone is particularly shouting for journalists to join? Like, I've not found myself gagging for them to spice up a conversation.
Numbers down? Maybe people have figured out that social media is bad for their mental health?
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson ironically this is far too nuanced and complex of a discussion to have on a “roughly one para and maybe a pic” social network platform. This has to be blogged. Seriously.
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@scottjenson ironically this is far too nuanced and complex of a discussion to have on a “roughly one para and maybe a pic” social network platform. This has to be blogged. Seriously.
@codinghorror You're absolutely correct. Part of my method (which I'm fairly transparent about) is that I make these provocations just to test the waters, see what people say, and how the conversation flows. It's basically research for the blog post.
I've gotten some extremely thoughtful comments that have made me rethink several of my original points.
I've even been accused of "baiting" some people which isn't entirely unfair either. It's helpful to 'poke the bear' occassionally
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As this conversation is spiraling a bit I want to make a few things clear:
1. I'd like Mastodon to be MORE inclusive and bring in more voices
2. Some people don't seem to want that
3. This is core problem to solve: How do we let more in, but not "pollute" your feed?
4. The solution is NOT "gatekeeping", revelling in the fact that AI journalists aren't welcome
5. This is the same reason we lost "Black Twitter" when it came over in 2022Yes, a lot of you don't want AI posts in your feed (or pick any other topic) but the solution isn't to keep "AI People" from joining Mastodon, any more than it is keeping marginalized communities off of Mastodon.
@scottjenson hypothesis: caring about "tech news" is a different thing from caring about technology
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@scottjenson @carnage4life Not sure anyone is particularly shouting for journalists to join? Like, I've not found myself gagging for them to spice up a conversation.
Numbers down? Maybe people have figured out that social media is bad for their mental health?
@awfulwoman Two very separate points:
1. Do you (or even many others) want journalists here? The is a very personal choice and you can want (or not want) anything you wish. That isn't really what's on the table.
2. Should Journalists be allowed to be here? I think you know where I stand on this. It's a subtle point (one which I was just reminded maybe shouldn't be discussed in Post form) But I do believe that encouraging a wider range of voices is critical to our success in building out a robust social media landscape. We can't gatekeep and only let in "the right folks" that of course is impossible as that definition varies for every person here. -
@scottjenson I wonder if the days of online social media of any kind may be drawing to a close. The notions that these spaces provide a form of authentic community, or impart a meaningful sense of solidarity, are being revealed as illusions. And that may be no bad thing.
@lowtech That's a very thoughtful point, thank you. I'd argue the majority of the 'negative replies' I've been getting such as equating anyone wanting to discuss AI as scumbags actually feeds into your point. These people strongly feel there is a "community standard" that needs to be upheld and enforced. Its critical, in their minds, that we chase people away that aren't part of our 'authentic community'.
I tend to agree with you, there is no such thing as that. We clearly want there to be safety and there are basic rules that should be enforced, but "Subject matter" tests of what is allowed and what isn't feels like an impossible goal.
It's actually why I made my post, I know these people would come out of the woodwork. I just wanted to see how they'd frame their arguements.
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@spazcosoft You sound nice
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> But my main point is that welcoming marginalized groups should be the focus, not opinions about AI
i am very very much in alignment with this.
@toddsundsted @dgodon Too many people thought I was *defending* the entire AI industry and worse, comparing it directly to Black Twitter. Hey it's social media, posts are short, it's easy to connect the dots the wrong way.
My poor writing skills aside, my point was what I think you both are saying: it's a slippery slope. It's no secret that black twitter was not made welcome here (it's a very complex topic but there is some truth to it).
My point wasn't that techbros needed support or coddling but the idea that we "allow" people to be here based on some type of ideological purity test is guaranteed to bite us in the ass. Too many people here get holier than thou and feel morally obligated to harass people. It's short sighted.
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@scottjenson What does "AI journalist" mean to you?
@EveHasWords what does that matter?
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@scottjenson hypothesis: caring about "tech news" is a different thing from caring about technology
@ireneista My comment had literally nothing to do with AI, technology, or technology news. It was about inclusivity and I just used this one post as an example of someone getting 'tone policed' by the Mastodon community.
I really don't care what your opinions are on AI, that's not my point my point is that you should be encouraged to have any view you want! for Mastodon to thrive all sorts of people need to come and find their own communities. I'm against people thinking they need to sharp who comes here. It's horribly short sighted.
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@ireneista My comment had literally nothing to do with AI, technology, or technology news. It was about inclusivity and I just used this one post as an example of someone getting 'tone policed' by the Mastodon community.
I really don't care what your opinions are on AI, that's not my point my point is that you should be encouraged to have any view you want! for Mastodon to thrive all sorts of people need to come and find their own communities. I'm against people thinking they need to sharp who comes here. It's horribly short sighted.
@scottjenson we didn't even mention "AI"
the thing you're quoting was about "tech news". we put that phrase in quotes to call attention to the fact we were directly quoting it. our apologies if that was less clear than we hoped.
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@scottjenson we didn't even mention "AI"
the thing you're quoting was about "tech news". we put that phrase in quotes to call attention to the fact we were directly quoting it. our apologies if that was less clear than we hoped.
@scottjenson you've clearly bucketed us into some specific category before even talking to us, but, like... whatever cliche you're imagining, we're not that.
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@scottjenson you've clearly bucketed us into some specific category before even talking to us, but, like... whatever cliche you're imagining, we're not that.
@scottjenson our point was that journalists have specific goals in their engagement with social venues, and the nature of those goals shapes the reactions they get and that can't be separated from the way journalists view those places.
it's a really super-specific use-case that the person you're quoting talks about, so we responded to that, because it didn't even occur to us you were trying to generalize it to a statement about everybody
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@scottjenson our point was that journalists have specific goals in their engagement with social venues, and the nature of those goals shapes the reactions they get and that can't be separated from the way journalists view those places.
it's a really super-specific use-case that the person you're quoting talks about, so we responded to that, because it didn't even occur to us you were trying to generalize it to a statement about everybody
@scottjenson for the record, we think such generalization is facially absurd
we'd normally have found some polite way to say that, but it turns out reacting as if we're someone else is a fast way to get us angry
