If you’re still using Proton mail:
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RE: https://nileane.fr/@nileane/116704285750838861
If you’re still using Proton mail:
The company is sponsoring the videos of French far-right / fascist YouTuber Vincent Lapierre.
If encryption is part of your vision for a better society, find a better service provider.
UPDATE 2026-06-08: Response from Proton. This comes after mods apparently deleted lots of critical posts in r/ProtonMail.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1u05xs2/comment/oqgihvq/
@slothrop @mangochutney
@protonprivacy is this true? -
@mdione I see that you are a tech person.
Proton is regulary doing odd things, like the ways they do PGP encryption. Non standard.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40282187
Also, they will send informations about you if "the police" ask them. Maybe emails if in clear text.
The main Proton Mail alternative is Tuta (https://tutamail.com I think). I don't use them but if a friend recommand easy and safe email provider, it's my recommandation.
@ache @mdione That’s not strictly true. They are obliged to hand over payment information (which reveals your identity) if courts ask for it, but you can pay them in ways other than by credit card. Otherwise they can’t access your emails.
The whole “company Y is evil because…” discourse on Mastodon is exhausting and just sows confusion. This appears to be all over affiliate links, which every customer has access to.
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@ache @mdione That’s not strictly true. They are obliged to hand over payment information (which reveals your identity) if courts ask for it, but you can pay them in ways other than by credit card. Otherwise they can’t access your emails.
The whole “company Y is evil because…” discourse on Mastodon is exhausting and just sows confusion. This appears to be all over affiliate links, which every customer has access to.
@gavin57 @mdione Did you read the information they send to the police ?
Like "IP linked to the account", name of the device linked to the account", and a "mobile" number associated to the account (phone number ? Too long to be just the phone number, maybe IMSI).
Nothing linked the the payment information. Please don't call for "fake news". They don't seems to store clear text emails for now, that is a good thing.
It's not just a affialiated link. It's about money.
This far right activist is getting money from them.https://youtu.be/8aUdWFfKCog&t=66
But as I said, for a tech person, proton mail usage is just, "not the right way". Tuta isn't very better since is hard to use something else than the web ui (the WEB ui ! 🤯).
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@gavin57 @mdione Did you read the information they send to the police ?
Like "IP linked to the account", name of the device linked to the account", and a "mobile" number associated to the account (phone number ? Too long to be just the phone number, maybe IMSI).
Nothing linked the the payment information. Please don't call for "fake news". They don't seems to store clear text emails for now, that is a good thing.
It's not just a affialiated link. It's about money.
This far right activist is getting money from them.https://youtu.be/8aUdWFfKCog&t=66
But as I said, for a tech person, proton mail usage is just, "not the right way". Tuta isn't very better since is hard to use something else than the web ui (the WEB ui ! 🤯).
@ache @mdione The number of companies or services that don’t cause controversy on Mastodon is vanishingly small.
Proton has an objectionable YouTuber on their affiliate program.
They no doubt also have good people in their affiliate program. They have Vivaldi on their affiliate page, for example.
Are Proton services good enough for most people? Yes. Better than Gmail? Yes. Do they have some issues? Also yes, but show me a company that doesn’t.
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@Infoseepage @schroedingerspossum @slothrop Dang, I had just mostly switched over from the Googles.
Update: reading up on it some more, I think I'm going to stick with Proton for now:
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@ache @mdione The number of companies or services that don’t cause controversy on Mastodon is vanishingly small.
Proton has an objectionable YouTuber on their affiliate program.
They no doubt also have good people in their affiliate program. They have Vivaldi on their affiliate page, for example.
Are Proton services good enough for most people? Yes. Better than Gmail? Yes. Do they have some issues? Also yes, but show me a company that doesn’t.
@gavin57 Mastodon has nothing to do with it. If the number of services that don't cause controversy on Mastodon is vanishingly small it's maybe because the number of companies that don't case controversy is vanishingly small.
You are right Proton is still better than Gmail. Good enough, I don't know, maybe.
Maybe the solution is to actually don't use big companies. Just find a local service, an association like toot.wales to host your email. I guess it's the best.
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@michaelmaguire @Shamhatt @benroyce @alice @slothrop
Hey why not?!?!
What I mean is there must be 'someone' who would adapt technology for the benefit of his fellow citizens NOT to extract rent from them, a decent human or group that make things better by reaching out and UNDERSTANDING that the "who" the tech benefits is its users. Nothing wrong with making a profit but there is something very wrong in exploiting, and it has been said: users are not your walking wallets*.
*h/t @pluralistic
@oscarfalcon @michaelmaguire @Shamhatt @benroyce @alice @slothrop @pluralistic have you not just described FOSS?
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@Hyperlynx You're right, "Great pick by Donald Trump." is the most anti-fascist thing I've ever read.
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@oscarfalcon @michaelmaguire @Shamhatt @benroyce @alice @slothrop @pluralistic have you not just described FOSS?
@paneerakbari @michaelmaguire @Shamhatt @benroyce @alice @slothrop @pluralistic
I am thinking more the "Who" that makes the software or hardware, not the products themselves, hence the TECHMENSCH moniker...
But you might be in the ballpark.
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Relatedly, it occurred to me that a more valuable thing I could do than offering email hosting is to put together some software which makes it easier to self-host and to be an email provider.
So that's now on my list of tasks (the other end of which is still visible with a good telescope).
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@nileane @gotofritz @slothrop my understanding of the way many of these sponsor programs work is the company goes to an agency, and then the agency like subcontracts out to a bunch of different organizations, which then go and contact different youtubers
I don't know if proton is doing this, however this is my understanding of how many youtube sponsorships work
@solonovamax
Yes, but the organisation hiring wankeeteering companies have, or research with, a target demographic.And marketing data will contain data from which you can assume political leaning and it's strength.
At some point you have to notice a group of ultra-right paranoids, who are ready to put cash in an envelope for your services.
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@tempusfelix @slothrop Ethics/sustainability/privacy are some of the reasons I chose Runbox:
They're also on the Fediverse: @runbox
@ratfactor @tempusfelix @slothrop
Thank you for the mention, we appreciate it! Thank you for being part of the Runbox Community.We are committed to operating ethically, and we are private and sustainable by design. Hosted in Norway and protected by some of the strongest privacy laws in the world, and running on 100% renewable energy.
Custom configure Runbox on your favorite email client — including command-line clients. Full IMAP/SMTP/msmtp compatibility.
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@slothrop not surprising. And I’ll add to the list of why Proton is a horrible choice because of their CEO:
https://mas.to/@markwyner/116184563372403595
Folks who use Proton are gonna find out. Because holding an account with a fascist boot-licker is the fucking around part.
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Relatedly, it occurred to me that a more valuable thing I could do than offering email hosting is to put together some software which makes it easier to self-host and to be an email provider.
So that's now on my list of tasks (the other end of which is still visible with a good telescope).
@woozle @benroyce @draNgNon @alice @slothrop That's a fantastic idea, yes! My only caution there is that if it sets stuff up rather than just suggesting configs and then vetting them, it's worth having it generate before-and-after records of what it found and how it changed things. I'm thinking that either it's a complete hands-off appliance *or* they're going to have to be comfortable sysadminning it.
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@slothrop Proton is not sponsoring this Vincent. They have a program that if you bring a new client you get a small amount. https://proton.me/partners
And the personal page this Vincent is referring to has been taken down. Check yourself https://proton.me/VincentLapierre
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@ratfactor @tempusfelix @slothrop
Thank you for the mention, we appreciate it! Thank you for being part of the Runbox Community.We are committed to operating ethically, and we are private and sustainable by design. Hosted in Norway and protected by some of the strongest privacy laws in the world, and running on 100% renewable energy.
Custom configure Runbox on your favorite email client — including command-line clients. Full IMAP/SMTP/msmtp compatibility.
@runbox @ratfactor @tempusfelix
I've hosted my email with Runbox for 5 years now. It does what it says on the tin, simply and reliably. No drama, quite boring (in the best way possible!)
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@alice @slothrop Yeah, unfortunately they had some bullshit around vocally supporting Trump and the christofascist GOP early last year. They got butthurt for getting called out on it and decided to "refocus [their] social media efforts" which meant slumbering their fediverse account.
I canceled my Proton Founder's subscription and moved over to @fastmail specifically because they supported more private domains. I've been very happy with the service.
The other recommendation I always see floating around is @Tutanota but they only documented 10 private domains when I was looking
"they had some bullshit around vocally supporting Trump and the christofascist GOP"
No, that's not at all what happened - but the truth isn't as juicy as hate campaigns.
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@solonovamax @nileane @gotofritz sure. But the reputational risk remains with the company - Proton, in this case.
Managing your brand image has costs. So does not managing your brand image.
@slothrop @nileane @gotofritz I am not saying they shouldn't terminate any agreement and come out with a post saying they don't support this or anything
just attempting to explain how it could have happened in the first place
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