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  3. Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels.

Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels.

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  • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

    And there was another line. “It’s rich landowners in Brandenburg taking the subsidies from the state to build wind turbines”. This is an equality / distribution issue, not an energy issue! Think of the opposite: “we shouldn’t build turbines there because the land owners are rich!” Errrr… #StateOfEU

    nemobis@mamot.frN This user is from outside of this forum
    nemobis@mamot.frN This user is from outside of this forum
    nemobis@mamot.fr
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #70

    @jon Also we know since the 1980s that the solution is to #tax rents/windfall profits. Not perfect, but better than other solutions.

    Or in other words, «From an allocative efficiency perspective, the proposed cap is not strategically neutral to market participants, but clearly superior to alternative measures that affect price formation overall, such as subsidies to marginal technologies or the abandonment of uniform pricing.»
    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/IPOL_STU(2023)740076

    #EUpolicy #renewables

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    • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

      @nikolar Right. Exactly this. It’s so obviously stupid as an argument but here I am with university educated polite society and I’m confronted with it. As if it’s an acceptable argument!

      dukeboitans@mas.toD This user is from outside of this forum
      dukeboitans@mas.toD This user is from outside of this forum
      dukeboitans@mas.to
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #71

      @jon @nikolar They don't give a crap about the birds, or any other animal for that matter. It's just an excuse they use to justify cutting on renewables in general, as they see them as a woke issue.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

        Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.

        xgebi@hachyderm.ioX This user is from outside of this forum
        xgebi@hachyderm.ioX This user is from outside of this forum
        xgebi@hachyderm.io
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #72

        @jon I assumed as much after following #ChatControl poop-show.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • jackofalltrades@mas.toJ jackofalltrades@mas.to

          @jon

          Yep, but that's the thing: many people, politicians and citizens alike, disagree with you on that point! That's democracy for you.

          jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jon@gruene.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #73

          @jackofalltrades something that’s wrong is wrong, however many people believe it

          jackofalltrades@mas.toJ 1 Reply Last reply
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          • amy@ice.ch3.stA This user is from outside of this forum
            amy@ice.ch3.stA This user is from outside of this forum
            amy@ice.ch3.st
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #74

            @econads@mendeddrum.org @jon@gruene.social who cares whether it's renewable? Biogas is technically renewable even though it is a fossil fuel. We need to focus entirely on carbon sequestration and environmental impact, not a meaningless buzzword.

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            • greg_b@climatejustice.socialG greg_b@climatejustice.social

              @jon respectfully, if we somehow resolve/address our climate change problem, but not our #racism problem, that's a fail. BOTH are peer priorities a la #ClimateJustice.

              jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
              jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
              jon@gruene.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #75

              @greg_b Sure. But fighting for our future in an unliveable world isn’t going to help people be respectful to their neighbours.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

                This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU

                mbirth@social.mbirth.ukM This user is from outside of this forum
                mbirth@social.mbirth.ukM This user is from outside of this forum
                mbirth@social.mbirth.uk
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #76

                @jon We're all going to die anyways.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7-60tyLQhA

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                • C crucialbreeze@mastodon.social

                  @jon people will say anything for oil money.

                  jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  jon@gruene.social
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #77

                  @crucialbreeze he’s not even directly paid by them! (The one I was talking to)

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                  • leorjorge@mastodon.socialL leorjorge@mastodon.social

                    @jon Living in Czech Republic I don't cease to be amazed by how brainwashed against wind turbines the people are here. Even biologists working with Ecology support this nonsense. Both this "ugly/changes the landscape" stuff, and the birds. What is worse is that here they're all in on nuclear, believe it's all they'll ever need. I think there is a point to be made that disabling already installed nuclear was a bad move in Germany, but building new will never be worth it compared to alternatives.

                    jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    jon@gruene.social
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #78

                    @LeoRJorge Right 💯 that re Germany.

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                    • mike@micro.mkp.caM mike@micro.mkp.ca
                      @jon That's a statement of personal values that is not universal. There are things more important than personal survival and there are things more important than cultural or even species survival.
                      jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jon@gruene.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #79

                      @mike this isn’t personal survival. It’s species survival. I’ll survive personally.

                      jt_rebelo@ciberlandia.ptJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • matzipan@hachyderm.ioM matzipan@hachyderm.io

                        @jon the turbines I see in Brandenburg when I come back to Berlin are awesome! That person is an idiot

                        jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jon@gruene.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #80

                        @matzipan Same! Totally.

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                        • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

                          “And those turbines you see in Brandenburg approaching Berlin are so UGLY!” he went on. Climate change, that’s ugly. #StateOfEU

                          jtwcornell91@hostux.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          jtwcornell91@hostux.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          jtwcornell91@hostux.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #81

                          @jon also, wind turbines are beautiful!

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

                            This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU

                            elba013@muenchen.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                            elba013@muenchen.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                            elba013@muenchen.social
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #82

                            @jon And my impression is, we were in a better position around 2019/20. Instead of progress too many steps. And this continues with Merz. Söder, Frei, Linnemann, Reiche, ....

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                            • jackofalltrades@mas.toJ jackofalltrades@mas.to

                              @jon

                              Yep, but that's the thing: many people, politicians and citizens alike, disagree with you on that point! That's democracy for you.

                              f14h@chaos.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                              f14h@chaos.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                              f14h@chaos.social
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #83

                              @jackofalltrades @jon No. Democracy is not about believing in different facts or truths. This is one of the common misconceptions of today.

                              There are facts and there is truth, and people can believe in different things in what is best (for them). That is democracy.

                              jackofalltrades@mas.toJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

                                Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.

                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                R This user is from outside of this forum
                                rjj@infosec.exchange
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #84

                                @jon Jon, you got the smart ones. I met someone in Paris last year who claimed to be a reporter. She insisted that wind turbines are a complete scam, and only there for show. She said they consume electricity to turn the blades and reinforce the deception.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • mike@micro.mkp.caM mike@micro.mkp.ca
                                  @jon That's a statement of personal values that is not universal. There are things more important than personal survival and there are things more important than cultural or even species survival.
                                  elba013@muenchen.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  elba013@muenchen.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  elba013@muenchen.social
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #85

                                  @mike @jon A very philosophical point. Yes, the universe may end tomorrow. But I think Jon is arguing on events where we can do something.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • f14h@chaos.socialF f14h@chaos.social

                                    @jackofalltrades @jon No. Democracy is not about believing in different facts or truths. This is one of the common misconceptions of today.

                                    There are facts and there is truth, and people can believe in different things in what is best (for them). That is democracy.

                                    jackofalltrades@mas.toJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jackofalltrades@mas.toJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    jackofalltrades@mas.to
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #86

                                    @f14h @jon

                                    We seem to agree, why start the toot with "No"?

                                    People can believe in different things in what is best for them - that's exactly what I'm saying. Most people believe that combating climate change is NOT the most important thing to them.

                                    Most believe that climate change is happening and is caused by humans (the facts / truth), but they still have different priorities (what is best for them): the cost of living, health, housing, immigration, etc.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • dukeduke@mastodon.socialD dukeduke@mastodon.social

                                      @jon NdGT lays out the problem.

                                      ednl@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ednl@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ednl@mastodon.social
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #87

                                      @DukeDuke @jon Best not to give him any more publicity, at the very least.

                                      https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azeenghorayshi/neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-allegations-four-women

                                      https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-harassment-allegations-response.html

                                      jon@gruene.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • jon@gruene.socialJ jon@gruene.social

                                        @jackofalltrades something that’s wrong is wrong, however many people believe it

                                        jackofalltrades@mas.toJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        jackofalltrades@mas.toJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        jackofalltrades@mas.to
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #88

                                        @jon Indeed. However, it is the will of the many, not ethics of the few, that ultimately decide what route humanity will take.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • ednl@mastodon.socialE ednl@mastodon.social

                                          @DukeDuke @jon Best not to give him any more publicity, at the very least.

                                          https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azeenghorayshi/neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-allegations-four-women

                                          https://slate.com/technology/2018/12/neil-degrasse-tyson-sexual-harassment-allegations-response.html

                                          jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          jon@gruene.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          jon@gruene.social
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #89

                                          @ednl @DukeDuke oh sod 🤦‍♂️ Un-boosted.

                                          ednl@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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