How much time per month should an unpaid volunteer maintainer dedicate to an Open Source project?
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@evan I miss the option: as much as he/she wants.
and only as much as it's healthy for him/her and their relationships! -
@evan (x) however much they feel like it
@larsmb and you'll keep using their unmaintained software, full of known security bugs, regardless?
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@tony So, you're happy using unmaintained or under-maintained software?
There's no minimum amount of time you expect maintainers to put in -- even on security issues, dependency or platform EOL, all that stuff?
You're going to use it regardless?
@evan They're unpaid volunteers, not employees.
Whether I'll continue to use unmaintained software depends on whether it still works for me (or whether I can fork it and fix issues, but that's not an option for many). Mostly I'll find an alternative, of which there are usually many.
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@preinheimer @joergi so, there's no minimum amount of time where you'd worry that the project is unmaintained or under-maintained?
@evan @preinheimer @joergi depends quite a lot no the project. There are no fixed rules why do you want to impose them?
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@troglobit @joergi would you continue to use software that has unpatched security alerts?
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@malwareminigun so, you'll keep using the software, no matter if there are outstanding security alerts, dependency EOL, untriaged issues? Just as long as the maintainers are happy?
@evan You didn't say "what are your conditions to use software", you said "how many unpaid volunteer hours should there be". There is software with those problems with thousands of hours of investment, there is also software without those issues with very little.
I don't "owe" the project usage, and the maintainers don't "owe" the project maintenance hours.
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@larsmb and you'll keep using their unmaintained software, full of known security bugs, regardless?
@evan That's ... a different question? They've got no obligations to me.
I could maintain it or contribute to it myself, pick something else, pay someone ...
But there's no "should".
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@evan @preinheimer @joergi depends quite a lot no the project. There are no fixed rules why do you want to impose them?
@troglobit @preinheimer @joergi because I like thinking about hard topics. You don't have to, though!
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@evan They're unpaid volunteers, not employees.
Whether I'll continue to use unmaintained software depends on whether it still works for me (or whether I can fork it and fix issues, but that's not an option for many). Mostly I'll find an alternative, of which there are usually many.
@tony so, how much time do you think it takes for maintainers to keep software in a state where it still works for you?
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@troglobit @joergi would you continue to use software that has unpatched security alerts?
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@evan That's ... a different question? They've got no obligations to me.
I could maintain it or contribute to it myself, pick something else, pay someone ...
But there's no "should".
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@troglobit @preinheimer @joergi because I like thinking about hard topics. You don't have to, though!
@evan you’re going about it the wrong way, which should be apparent by the responses you get. Chill or be honest and upfront about your agenda. You’re just making people feel bad about their life choices and you are not helping.
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@tony so, how much time do you think it takes for maintainers to keep software in a state where it still works for you?
@evan @tony That's yet another question though?
How much effort a given piece of software requires to stay functional in a changing world is very varied.
I have a tiny C mail delivery agent I wrote for myself in 1997 and last touched in 1998. It's still working perfectly fine locally. (I had to recompile it once.)
Compare with a project like Home Assistant, where I really couldn't guess how much effort that must be.
I'd expect a few hours per month for an average project.
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@evan
for me, the main problem on many (smaller) open-source projects is, that there is only ONE maintainer.
there should be a team.the bigger the project, the more user it uses, the better should be the support.
And: good support needs normally a team. -
@evan However much as they feel like and healthily can. Unpaid volunteers owe nothing to noone.
@shtrom so, if it's not because they owe somebody something, why do volunteer maintainers do the work in the first place? And if they do have a goal, how much time do they have to put in to reach it? Are there different amounts of time for different goals?
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@tony so, how much time do you think it takes for maintainers to keep software in a state where it still works for you?
@evan How long is a piece of string? I've worked on stuff that I could poke once a month to see if anyone had any issues.. Big projects are sometimes run like commercial entities with multiple maintainers. And all points in between.
But they're not maintaining software in a state where it works for me.. it's not about me.. They're doing it because they want to, and I (and many others) happen to benefit from that.
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@evan @tony That's yet another question though?
How much effort a given piece of software requires to stay functional in a changing world is very varied.
I have a tiny C mail delivery agent I wrote for myself in 1997 and last touched in 1998. It's still working perfectly fine locally. (I had to recompile it once.)
Compare with a project like Home Assistant, where I really couldn't guess how much effort that must be.
I'd expect a few hours per month for an average project.
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@evan Well, if that's the standard for what "should" means in the original question, then yes, exactly however much they feel like:
Here, “should” means the extent to which actions are good for the actor mentally and physically, [...]
That's all I expect from unpaid people who've made no commitment to me. Open Source is big on the "no warranty" part.
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@evan @joergi @preinheimer huge +1 on that. Maintainers of open source softwares don't owe anything to anyone.
@dannycolin
yes - and no.if you are the programmer of CURL where the complete internet relies on, or some similar project, you have a responsibility - but tbh, something like that should not be unpaid. so the problem is somewhere else tbh
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