Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.
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Which data do you mean?
@FediTips This
All threads. -
@FediTips This
All threads.How would an instance admin sell a public thread?
Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?
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How would an instance admin sell a public thread?
Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?
@FediTips Yes, good point. Monetization of any kind isn't done by anyone hosting.
Thanks. I tend to think worst case in this age of surveillance economy.
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"requires something more than a few core devs and a lot of hobbyists."
I'm not clear on what you're suggesting should happen instead?
Devs and admins are doing an amazing job with the resources they are given.
It's easy to point out problems but the corporate alternatives rely on VC money and cause "enshittification", which negates the entire point of alternative social networks.
It's great to see co-ops and more managed hosting, but how does that help fund instances?
@FediTips @FranceskaMann The post I was replying to seemed to me to be suggesting that there were no real problems to be addressed. My post was describing why I think there are significant problems to be addressed. I wasn't claiming to have the correct solutions. I suspect that various experiments will need to be tried to find good solutions, and it will likely require a mix of approaches to cover all types of users and use cases.
To address the specific examples I gave, I think managed hosting is useful to professionalize the hosting portion of the equation and make the full costs explicit; even if that still leaves the puzzle of how to fund it. Things like CoSocial are even more encouraging, as they explicitly require payment for membership (while creating a mechanism for gift memberships to support those who can't pay), rather than relying on users to spontaneously donate to cover unknown costs. And by involving users in governance, it may make people more invested, help them understand the challenges of running the server, and help guide the instance toward solutions that work for users.
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@FediTips @FranceskaMann The post I was replying to seemed to me to be suggesting that there were no real problems to be addressed. My post was describing why I think there are significant problems to be addressed. I wasn't claiming to have the correct solutions. I suspect that various experiments will need to be tried to find good solutions, and it will likely require a mix of approaches to cover all types of users and use cases.
To address the specific examples I gave, I think managed hosting is useful to professionalize the hosting portion of the equation and make the full costs explicit; even if that still leaves the puzzle of how to fund it. Things like CoSocial are even more encouraging, as they explicitly require payment for membership (while creating a mechanism for gift memberships to support those who can't pay), rather than relying on users to spontaneously donate to cover unknown costs. And by involving users in governance, it may make people more invested, help them understand the challenges of running the server, and help guide the instance toward solutions that work for users.
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How would an instance admin sell a public thread?
Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?
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The "training" data (i.e. stolen data) for LLMs is usually slurped without permission or compensation, they pirate stuff and get away with it:
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It depends on what is meant by sustainable and long scale. There are many instances that have been operating since 2017 (Mastodon only began in 2016) or similar.
There have been many commercial social networks which have come and gone in that time such as Post News and Hive, which were run by professionals. The commercial networks couldn't make enough money to please investors so they shut down. Whereas the non-professional Fedi just carried on as it didn't need to please investors.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon
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@FediTips Yes, good point. Monetization of any kind isn't done by anyone hosting.
Thanks. I tend to think worst case in this age of surveillance economy.
It's totally fair to ask about risk of data sales, and a reasonable attitude
As far as I know it hasn't happened, but of course there's always a risk online.
One thing that's really good about the Fedi is it doesn't ask for more personal data than it needs, there's no requirement for a phone number or real name or personal photo etc.
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@FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon
@tauon @FediTips and there will be instances as long as at least one person is willing to host them.
But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so.
Fediverse will not die without more possibilities to secure a revenue. But without it, I highly doubt it will get big enough for the change in society it could provide.
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org do you fucking think i didn't
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@tauon @FediTips and there will be instances as long as at least one person is willing to host them.
But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so.
Fediverse will not die without more possibilities to secure a revenue. But without it, I highly doubt it will get big enough for the change in society it could provide.
"But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so. "
You're asserting this, but you're not providing specific examples to support your case?
The best-funded and most corporate-like instance on the Fedi is mastodon.social but it has worse-than-average moderation and many other instances either block it or would like to (but feel it's too big to block).
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org do you fucking think i didn't
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org i just think a reply asking me to read it is not very nice when i asked what you were trying to say
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org i just think a reply asking me to read it is not very nice when i asked what you were trying to say
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org are you implying that there's no such thing as nonsense? or do i yet again not understand
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org are you implying that there's no such thing as nonsense? or do i yet again not understand
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org okay man i didn't realise you were just trolling very badly
