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  3. Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.

Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.

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  • feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF feditips@social.growyourown.services

    Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.

    They don't sell your data or carry advertising, and they don't get any share of the donations given to the Mastodon etc software developers.

    Please consider donating to your server admin, they usually have donation links on your server website's "About" page. You can also ask your admin directly about how to donate.

    #FediTips

    joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
    joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
    joelp@mastodon.sdf.org
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #21

    @FediTips

    > They don't sell your data...

    Is this guaranteed though? Anyone can grab this data and, for example, use it to train a model, no?

    feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF 1 Reply Last reply
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    • joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ joelp@mastodon.sdf.org

      @FediTips

      > They don't sell your data...

      Is this guaranteed though? Anyone can grab this data and, for example, use it to train a model, no?

      feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
      feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
      feditips@social.growyourown.services
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #22

      @joelp

      Which data do you mean?

      joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ 1 Reply Last reply
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      • feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF feditips@social.growyourown.services

        @joelp

        Which data do you mean?

        joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
        joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
        joelp@mastodon.sdf.org
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #23

        @FediTips This 🙂 All threads.

        feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF 1 Reply Last reply
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        • joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ joelp@mastodon.sdf.org

          @FediTips This 🙂 All threads.

          feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
          feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
          feditips@social.growyourown.services
          wrote sidst redigeret af feditips@social.growyourown.services
          #24

          @joelp

          How would an instance admin sell a public thread?

          Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?

          joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ 2 Replies Last reply
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          • feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF feditips@social.growyourown.services

            @joelp

            How would an instance admin sell a public thread?

            Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?

            joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
            joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
            joelp@mastodon.sdf.org
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #25

            @FediTips Yes, good point. Monetization of any kind isn't done by anyone hosting.

            Thanks. I tend to think worst case in this age of surveillance economy.

            feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF 1 Reply Last reply
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            • feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF feditips@social.growyourown.services

              @internic @inkorrupt

              "requires something more than a few core devs and a lot of hobbyists."

              I'm not clear on what you're suggesting should happen instead?

              Devs and admins are doing an amazing job with the resources they are given.

              It's easy to point out problems but the corporate alternatives rely on VC money and cause "enshittification", which negates the entire point of alternative social networks.

              It's great to see co-ops and more managed hosting, but how does that help fund instances?

              internic@mathstodon.xyzI This user is from outside of this forum
              internic@mathstodon.xyzI This user is from outside of this forum
              internic@mathstodon.xyz
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #26

              @FediTips @FranceskaMann The post I was replying to seemed to me to be suggesting that there were no real problems to be addressed. My post was describing why I think there are significant problems to be addressed. I wasn't claiming to have the correct solutions. I suspect that various experiments will need to be tried to find good solutions, and it will likely require a mix of approaches to cover all types of users and use cases.

              To address the specific examples I gave, I think managed hosting is useful to professionalize the hosting portion of the equation and make the full costs explicit; even if that still leaves the puzzle of how to fund it. Things like CoSocial are even more encouraging, as they explicitly require payment for membership (while creating a mechanism for gift memberships to support those who can't pay), rather than relying on users to spontaneously donate to cover unknown costs. And by involving users in governance, it may make people more invested, help them understand the challenges of running the server, and help guide the instance toward solutions that work for users.

              https://blog.cosocial.ca/

              feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF 1 Reply Last reply
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              • internic@mathstodon.xyzI internic@mathstodon.xyz

                @FediTips @FranceskaMann The post I was replying to seemed to me to be suggesting that there were no real problems to be addressed. My post was describing why I think there are significant problems to be addressed. I wasn't claiming to have the correct solutions. I suspect that various experiments will need to be tried to find good solutions, and it will likely require a mix of approaches to cover all types of users and use cases.

                To address the specific examples I gave, I think managed hosting is useful to professionalize the hosting portion of the equation and make the full costs explicit; even if that still leaves the puzzle of how to fund it. Things like CoSocial are even more encouraging, as they explicitly require payment for membership (while creating a mechanism for gift memberships to support those who can't pay), rather than relying on users to spontaneously donate to cover unknown costs. And by involving users in governance, it may make people more invested, help them understand the challenges of running the server, and help guide the instance toward solutions that work for users.

                https://blog.cosocial.ca/

                feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                feditips@social.growyourown.services
                wrote sidst redigeret af feditips@social.growyourown.services
                #27
                Dette indlæg er slettet!
                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF feditips@social.growyourown.services

                  @joelp

                  How would an instance admin sell a public thread?

                  Surely LLMs etc will just slurp it without asking permission?

                  zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                  zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                  zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #28
                  @FediTips @joelp no LLM's can not do that without the guy knowing what to ask to the LLM so that discriminate the weapon not the actor.
                  feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF tauon@possum.cityT 2 Replies Last reply
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                  • zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                    @FediTips @joelp no LLM's can not do that without the guy knowing what to ask to the LLM so that discriminate the weapon not the actor.
                    feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                    feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                    feditips@social.growyourown.services
                    wrote sidst redigeret af feditips@social.growyourown.services
                    #29

                    @zer0unplanned

                    The "training" data (i.e. stolen data) for LLMs is usually slurped without permission or compensation, they pirate stuff and get away with it:

                    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/02/meta-torrented-over-81-7tb-of-pirated-books-to-train-ai-authors-say/

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                      @FediTips @joelp no LLM's can not do that without the guy knowing what to ask to the LLM so that discriminate the weapon not the actor.
                      tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                      tauon@possum.city
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #30

                      @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org what

                      zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF feditips@social.growyourown.services

                        @feyter

                        It depends on what is meant by sustainable and long scale. There are many instances that have been operating since 2017 (Mastodon only began in 2016) or similar.

                        There have been many commercial social networks which have come and gone in that time such as Post News and Hive, which were run by professionals. The commercial networks couldn't make enough money to please investors so they shut down. Whereas the non-professional Fedi just carried on as it didn't need to please investors.

                        tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                        tauon@possum.city
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #31

                        @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon

                        feyter@mastodon.gamedev.placeF 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • joelp@mastodon.sdf.orgJ joelp@mastodon.sdf.org

                          @FediTips Yes, good point. Monetization of any kind isn't done by anyone hosting.

                          Thanks. I tend to think worst case in this age of surveillance economy.

                          feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                          feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                          feditips@social.growyourown.services
                          wrote sidst redigeret af feditips@social.growyourown.services
                          #32

                          @joelp

                          It's totally fair to ask about risk of data sales, and a reasonable attitude 🙂

                          As far as I know it hasn't happened, but of course there's always a risk online.

                          One thing that's really good about the Fedi is it doesn't ask for more personal data than it needs, there's no requirement for a phone number or real name or personal photo etc.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • tauon@possum.cityT tauon@possum.city

                            @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org what

                            zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                            zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                            zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #33
                            @tauon @FediTips @joelp read
                            tauon@possum.cityT 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • tauon@possum.cityT tauon@possum.city

                              @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon

                              feyter@mastodon.gamedev.placeF This user is from outside of this forum
                              feyter@mastodon.gamedev.placeF This user is from outside of this forum
                              feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #34

                              @tauon @FediTips and there will be instances as long as at least one person is willing to host them.

                              But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so.

                              Fediverse will not die without more possibilities to secure a revenue. But without it, I highly doubt it will get big enough for the change in society it could provide.

                              feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                                @tauon @FediTips @joelp read
                                tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tauon@possum.city
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #35

                                @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org do you fucking think i didn't

                                zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • feyter@mastodon.gamedev.placeF feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place

                                  @tauon @FediTips and there will be instances as long as at least one person is willing to host them.

                                  But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so.

                                  Fediverse will not die without more possibilities to secure a revenue. But without it, I highly doubt it will get big enough for the change in society it could provide.

                                  feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                                  feditips@social.growyourown.servicesF This user is from outside of this forum
                                  feditips@social.growyourown.services
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #36

                                  @feyter @tauon

                                  "But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so. "

                                  You're asserting this, but you're not providing specific examples to support your case?

                                  The best-funded and most corporate-like instance on the Fedi is mastodon.social but it has worse-than-average moderation and many other instances either block it or would like to (but feel it's too big to block).

                                  feyter@mastodon.gamedev.placeF 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • tauon@possum.cityT tauon@possum.city

                                    @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org do you fucking think i didn't

                                    zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                    zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #37
                                    @tauon @FediTips @joelp I friendly think that you are aggressive kind.
                                    tauon@possum.cityT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                                      @tauon @FediTips @joelp I friendly think that you are aggressive kind.
                                      tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      tauon@possum.city
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #38

                                      @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org i just think a reply asking me to read it is not very nice when i asked what you were trying to say

                                      zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • tauon@possum.cityT tauon@possum.city

                                        @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org i just think a reply asking me to read it is not very nice when i asked what you were trying to say

                                        zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #39
                                        @tauon @FediTips @joelp Is why I said read, if you read you understand beyond that search a medic.
                                        tauon@possum.cityT 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org
                                          @tauon @FediTips @joelp Is why I said read, if you read you understand beyond that search a medic.
                                          tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tauon@possum.cityT This user is from outside of this forum
                                          tauon@possum.city
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #40

                                          @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org are you implying that there's no such thing as nonsense? or do i yet again not understand

                                          zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.orgZ 1 Reply Last reply
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