Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
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@randahl Legal doesn’t mean moral or ethical. Slavery was legal. Calling it “begging” immediately conjures up negative associations. It is not a neutral term. If you’re truly an ally to Palestinians (and I have no reason to doubt that you are) please reflect on what impact calling for servers to implement rules against “begging” will have on the Gazans here who rely on donations to exist.
It was hard enough to find acceptance on the fediverse for our friends and families in Gaza and the last thing we need is further impediments to being able to help them.
For anyone reading this, if you want to reach out and offer mutual aid to people who are surviving genocide, please see https://gaza-verified.org/donate where you can help families directly via their fundraisers.
@aral I fully respect and appreciate your Gaza Verified initiative, Aral. I really do. And had your first post been worded positively, informing me that you have actually solved one of the problems I have identified, I would have applauded that.
But subjectively, the way I read your post was more along the lines of you writing, "Hey arsehole, wake up!", and that is why I replied to you the way I did.
You and I do not know each other, but you seem interesting and I hope I get to know you.
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@aral I fully respect and appreciate your Gaza Verified initiative, Aral. I really do. And had your first post been worded positively, informing me that you have actually solved one of the problems I have identified, I would have applauded that.
But subjectively, the way I read your post was more along the lines of you writing, "Hey arsehole, wake up!", and that is why I replied to you the way I did.
You and I do not know each other, but you seem interesting and I hope I get to know you.
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@aral Now, since we agree that identification is essentail to human aid, can we also agree that tag spamming is not a proper use of Mastodon?
Because when I see, say, an African account creating dozens of money request posts each day, tagging as many users as they can fit into each post, I feel they are using Mastodon in a way which is not helpful.
Like everyone else, I have a finite limit to how many people I can support, and this limit is not raised through spam.
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@randahl
"Only give to aid orgs" and "no begging allowed" - if fedi ever gets like that we might as well start investing in those horrible anti-homeless benches and stuff..@krnlg I share your sentiment. Mastodon should definitely be a place where we can help each other — financial or otherwise.
At the same time, I also believe that tag spamming is an improper use of Mastodon — no matter your noble cause.
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@GroupNebula563 @randahl Genuinely confused by this response?
Do you perceive something different or otherwise objectionable with African countries? Could you explain more?
@thathackergirl @randahl agreed, what’s wrong with Africa?
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Assaf - as the things you have said are manifestly not true, and you spreading this lie will hurt some of the most vulnerable people in the world, my best guess is that you are a Zionist...
Hard to know - but your post would align perfectly with other zionist liars and murderers we've seen here.
I don't have a problem with your politics, and if you want to mail scammers a cheque to feel good that's not my problem, I'm just cluing randahl that this is a very common scam technique and has nothing to do with etiquette
(PS I recommend reading about scam complexes, how people get imprisoned there, etc)
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I don't have a problem with your politics, and if you want to mail scammers a cheque to feel good that's not my problem, I'm just cluing randahl that this is a very common scam technique and has nothing to do with etiquette
(PS I recommend reading about scam complexes, how people get imprisoned there, etc)
Mate - I work in banking finance and security. So fuck right off.
What you said about Gaza hurts people. Real people.
You know NOTHING - that is no-thing about conditions in Gaza. Manifestly. And yet you post what is incapable of being differentiated from Zionist propaganda.
Randahl can make his own mind up - but you? Just hurting the most vulnerable from a position of dude-bro ignorance and privilege. Congratulations.
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@GroupNebula563 @randahl Genuinely confused by this response?
Do you perceive something different or otherwise objectionable with African countries? Could you explain more?
@thathackergirl all I meant was, I suppose accounts belonging to residents of the African continent are not verified by the Gaza Verified project, since Gaza is in The Middle East.
@GroupNebula563 -
@thathackergirl all I meant was, I suppose accounts belonging to residents of the African continent are not verified by the Gaza Verified project, since Gaza is in The Middle East.
@GroupNebula563@randahl @thathackergirl fair enough, but honestly who cares. at the end of the day someone in need is getting money and that’s what matters
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Mate - I work in banking finance and security. So fuck right off.
What you said about Gaza hurts people. Real people.
You know NOTHING - that is no-thing about conditions in Gaza. Manifestly. And yet you post what is incapable of being differentiated from Zionist propaganda.
Randahl can make his own mind up - but you? Just hurting the most vulnerable from a position of dude-bro ignorance and privilege. Congratulations.
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@aral I fully respect and appreciate your Gaza Verified initiative, Aral. I really do. And had your first post been worded positively, informing me that you have actually solved one of the problems I have identified, I would have applauded that.
But subjectively, the way I read your post was more along the lines of you writing, "Hey arsehole, wake up!", and that is why I replied to you the way I did.
You and I do not know each other, but you seem interesting and I hope I get to know you.
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@randahl Indeed + ditto. I’m sorry if my tone was grating. I’m especially protective of the folks in Gaza.
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@aral Now, since we agree that identification is essentail to human aid, can we also agree that tag spamming is not a proper use of Mastodon?
Because when I see, say, an African account creating dozens of money request posts each day, tagging as many users as they can fit into each post, I feel they are using Mastodon in a way which is not helpful.
Like everyone else, I have a finite limit to how many people I can support, and this limit is not raised through spam.
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@randahl Yes, it’s a huge issue and one that I’m trying to communicate to the folks in Gaza Verified also. (It’s against our rules and the rules of nearly every instance and it’s not in the long-term interests of anyone.) I recently wrote a lengthy message to send to everyone on Gaza Verified to remind them of this again (the very few who engage in it are also harming everyone else who isn’t) but I also want to make sure I’m not preaching etiquette to people facing literal genocide. So I’m going to read over it again when I have more time but, yes, we must address the issue because, at best, people are going to mute/block (even I’ve muted some accounts because I can’t manage the number of messages) and, at worst, report the accounts and get them suspended, etc.
Going forward, I also feel we might have to remove the verification of the one or two accounts that are most engaged in this after repeated warnings.
And this is also why we created the list at https://gaza-verified.org/donate – so that there would be a fair ordering and a place everyone could promote.
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@randahl Yes, it’s a huge issue and one that I’m trying to communicate to the folks in Gaza Verified also. (It’s against our rules and the rules of nearly every instance and it’s not in the long-term interests of anyone.) I recently wrote a lengthy message to send to everyone on Gaza Verified to remind them of this again (the very few who engage in it are also harming everyone else who isn’t) but I also want to make sure I’m not preaching etiquette to people facing literal genocide. So I’m going to read over it again when I have more time but, yes, we must address the issue because, at best, people are going to mute/block (even I’ve muted some accounts because I can’t manage the number of messages) and, at worst, report the accounts and get them suspended, etc.
Going forward, I also feel we might have to remove the verification of the one or two accounts that are most engaged in this after repeated warnings.
And this is also why we created the list at https://gaza-verified.org/donate – so that there would be a fair ordering and a place everyone could promote.
@aral great! Glad to hear this challenge is on your radar.
When I get the time, I need to read some more about your verification process.
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@aral Now, since we agree that identification is essentail to human aid, can we also agree that tag spamming is not a proper use of Mastodon?
Because when I see, say, an African account creating dozens of money request posts each day, tagging as many users as they can fit into each post, I feel they are using Mastodon in a way which is not helpful.
Like everyone else, I have a finite limit to how many people I can support, and this limit is not raised through spam.
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@randahl PS. On the identification issue: we don’t identify the people we’re verifying, we only verify that:
1. They’re Gazan (with the help of our Gazan volunteers who can tell based on dialect)
2. They’re either in Gaza (we ask them to show us around outside and they are either in a Hollywood film set or Gaza) or, if not, that they are upfront about being displaced elsewhere.We don’t (and don’t want to) verify identification and we don’t (and can’t) verify any claims made beyond that.
The verification simply verifies that there is a human being in need at the other end of the account.
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@aral great! Glad to hear this challenge is on your radar.
When I get the time, I need to read some more about your verification process.
@randahl (Just outlined it in a separate reply.)
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Randahl: did you see what he said???? This IS X if he posts stuff like that!
The people he intends to hurt are the among the most vulnerable on the planet but tech-dude-bro here apparently knows stuff that the rest of us (however much we might actually know) don't know.
This becomes X if bros like him post stuff like that. And he can expect a robust reponse to his hate and arrogance when he does. I'm all for the friendly village. But when someone's burning it down...
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@JimmyB @GRA3432 my intention with this thread is certainly not to recommend anyone should be treated badly.
I am simply trying to figure out how we can all coexist in this complex world.
Sometimes I get tagged by accounts that send out many requests every day, tagging dozens of people. This means they are forcibly making phones go "ding!" in the pockets of dozens of people around the globe in the middle of the work day.
I am not convinced this is an optimal way to ensure help where needed.
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Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
Every week I see accounts asking for money, often tagging me or others directly.
I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
So my question is, should Mastodon servers have a policy about begging, and if so, what should the policy be?
@randahl I think it's fine, the same way that if I pass a panhandler in a public area I don't object even if I don't contribute. I've mostly only seen this from folks I'm familiar with or boosts from people I'm familiar with. It might be culturally specific, because in the United States life is really precarious to a degree not seen in other western countries, so it is very typical for people to set up ad hoc fundraising for life events that would simply not occur in other developed countries.
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Randahl: did you see what he said???? This IS X if he posts stuff like that!
The people he intends to hurt are the among the most vulnerable on the planet but tech-dude-bro here apparently knows stuff that the rest of us (however much we might actually know) don't know.
This becomes X if bros like him post stuff like that. And he can expect a robust reponse to his hate and arrogance when he does. I'm all for the friendly village. But when someone's burning it down...
@JimmyB @randahl for the record, I think the people of Gaza are in such a dire situation they can't afford to sit all day composing DMs to individuals on a minuscule social network, while scammers will send individual DMs exactly because they get responses (money) — and BTW if you ever respond they'll move convo to Whatsapp or some other network where they can't be quickly blocked
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So there definitely are scams: the ‘my mum in Gaza has diabetes’ was well known. I think tho the concept of ‘legitimate’ is deeply problematic in itself. Ie someone from W Africa asks for help but pretends to be from somewhere more currently in the news and in vogue. Is that really an issue? Well - I don’t want to give cash to someone with 100 staff running a scheme. But generally I don’t really care: ask for help? I’ll try to help.
