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  3. had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked.

had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked.

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  • x0@dragonscave.spaceX x0@dragonscave.space

    @Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter I ran into a surprising manifestation of this when I was in high school in the 2010s, which I assume happened due to some shift in guidelines. Suddenly everything was about critical thinking! Critical thinking is a good skill yes. But nobody even bothered to explain what it was. How it works. How you go about training it. They just expected everyone to have it from the off. And while I may or may not have it, can you explain to me how the fuck you define it? I was a very confused autist.

    ariarhythmic@ohai.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
    ariarhythmic@ohai.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
    ariarhythmic@ohai.social
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #32

    @x0 @Azarilh @peter In the context of a school trying and failing to get with the times, "critical thinking" is a buzzword, just as meaningless as most of the labor they force you to perform.

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    • ariarhythmic@ohai.socialA ariarhythmic@ohai.social

      @peter The reason this is happening is ChatGPT is a perfect fit to what the education systems has demanded all along, which is busywork for the sake of busywork, lengthy writings that hold no meaning, time-consuming assignments that serve no purpose.

      LLMs are *great* for this! It's not that they've fundamentally messed up the system that was, it's that their presence is shining a spotlight on how shitty it's always been.

      C This user is from outside of this forum
      C This user is from outside of this forum
      cj@dragonscave.space
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #33

      @ariarhythmic @peter I’m not an expert on our educational system as a whole, but my wife is a teacher, and this doesn't reflect her commitment to teaching at all. She puts a lot of work into her lesson plans, assignments and grading. Based on some of her student evaluations and comments on sites like Rate my Professor, it's clear that some students won't give her methods a chance and write her assignments off as pointless.

      peter@thepit.socialP 1 Reply Last reply
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      • ariarhythmic@ohai.socialA ariarhythmic@ohai.social

        @f4grx @peter Didn't we figure out murdering political opponents in death camps was bad in the 1940s? Did you forget?
        Or is your point that instead of removing oppressive systems, you want to be placed in charge of them? Didn't we learn how that works out with the tyrannical regimes of the Soviet Union and now the PRC?
        Or have you never bothered to?

        harmoniousanger@zeroes.caH This user is from outside of this forum
        harmoniousanger@zeroes.caH This user is from outside of this forum
        harmoniousanger@zeroes.ca
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #34

        @ariarhythmic @f4grx @peter
        There was a notable difference between the death camps and the Nuremberg trials.

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        • C cj@dragonscave.space

          @ariarhythmic @peter I’m not an expert on our educational system as a whole, but my wife is a teacher, and this doesn't reflect her commitment to teaching at all. She puts a lot of work into her lesson plans, assignments and grading. Based on some of her student evaluations and comments on sites like Rate my Professor, it's clear that some students won't give her methods a chance and write her assignments off as pointless.

          peter@thepit.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
          peter@thepit.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
          peter@thepit.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #35

          @cj @ariarhythmic i hate the practice of rating teachers, as if students are consumers to be served rather than people to be educated.

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          • peter@thepit.socialP peter@thepit.social

            had dinner last night with a couple of kids from Texas and their assessment is that the education system is completely fucked. it's all teachers using ChatGPT to make lessons that kids complete using ChatGPT and then teachers grade the work using ChatGPT. you couldn't undermine a society more effectively if you set out to do it on purpose.

            fionescu@mastodon.bsd.cafeF This user is from outside of this forum
            fionescu@mastodon.bsd.cafeF This user is from outside of this forum
            fionescu@mastodon.bsd.cafe
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #36

            @peter Sooner or later, this was going to happen with Ford-model pedagogy. Modern pedagogy showed a different education is possible, but powers that be wanted schools, esp. public ones, to remain a mere factory of obedient workers

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            • dbg3d@masto.esD This user is from outside of this forum
              dbg3d@masto.esD This user is from outside of this forum
              dbg3d@masto.es
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #37

              @Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter
              After Mussolini was hanged up, it changed Franco's mind and near ded he decided to name King Juan Carlos to put Spain into democracy (kind of, the system we got was for the Borbons to keep stealing).

              So, yes, it works. I'm sure there are many other examples.

              heliospi@neuromatch.socialH 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • dbg3d@masto.esD This user is from outside of this forum
                dbg3d@masto.esD This user is from outside of this forum
                dbg3d@masto.es
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #38

                @theothersimo @ariarhythmic @peter

                Thats why we need politicians that will not bend to them, and will not tax them. Politicians and judges that will put them in jail.

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                • ariarhythmic@ohai.socialA ariarhythmic@ohai.social

                  @peter No public executions.

                  Making a show of executing your enemies when you've already won is meaningless violence. Get above that, it's the 21st century in case you haven't noticed.

                  bob@beamship.mpaq.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                  bob@beamship.mpaq.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                  bob@beamship.mpaq.org
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #39

                  @ariarhythmic @peter

                  So, its ok for them to kill us, then?

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                  • ariarhythmic@ohai.socialA ariarhythmic@ohai.social

                    @f4grx @peter Didn't we figure out murdering political opponents in death camps was bad in the 1940s? Did you forget?
                    Or is your point that instead of removing oppressive systems, you want to be placed in charge of them? Didn't we learn how that works out with the tyrannical regimes of the Soviet Union and now the PRC?
                    Or have you never bothered to?

                    bob@beamship.mpaq.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                    bob@beamship.mpaq.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
                    bob@beamship.mpaq.org
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #40

                    @ariarhythmic @f4grx @peter but murdering the rest of us is ok as long as billionairs are doing it???

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                    • dbg3d@masto.esD dbg3d@masto.es

                      @Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter
                      After Mussolini was hanged up, it changed Franco's mind and near ded he decided to name King Juan Carlos to put Spain into democracy (kind of, the system we got was for the Borbons to keep stealing).

                      So, yes, it works. I'm sure there are many other examples.

                      heliospi@neuromatch.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                      heliospi@neuromatch.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                      heliospi@neuromatch.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #41

                      @DBG3D
                      @Azarilh @ariarhythmic @peter
                      For an anarchist perspective against state terror and public executions i suggest the essay:
                      "Against the Logic of the Guillotine
                      Why the Paris Commune Burned the Guillotine—and We Should Too"
                      https://crimethinc.com/2019/04/08/against-the-logic-of-the-guillotine-why-the-paris-commune-burned-the-guillotine-and-we-should-too

                      Also tiqqun's book The Imaginary Party theorizes the pitfalls of people's courts, if the goal is legit freedom and revolution.

                      "Foucault, too, made a decisive contribution to the theory of the Imaginary Party: his interviews dealing with the plebs. Foucault evokes the theme for the first time in a “Discussion with Maoists” on “popular justice” in 1972. Criticizing the Maoist practice of popular courts, he reminds us that all popular revolts since the Middles Ages have been anti-judicial, that the constitution of people’s courts during the French Revolution occurred at precisely the moment when the bourgeoisie regained control, and, finally, that the tribunal form, by reintroducing a neutral authority between the people and its enemies, reincorporated the principle of the state in the struggle against the state. “When we talk about courts we’re talking about a place where the struggle between contending forces is willy-nilly suspended.” According to Foucault, the function of justice following the Middles Ages was to separate the proletarianized plebs-the plebs integrated as a proletariat, included by way of their exclusion-from the non-proletarianized plebs, from the plebs proper. By isolating within the mass of the poor the “criminals,” the “violent,” the “insane,” the “vagrants,” the “perverted,” the “gangsters,” the “underworld,” THEY would not only remove what was for power the most dangerous segment of the population, that which was always ready for armed, Insurrectionary action, THEY would also enable themselves to turn the people’s most offensive elements against the people themselves. This would be the permanent threat of “either you go to prison or you join the army,” “either you go to prison or you leave for the colonies,” “either you go to prison or you join the police,” etc. All the effort of the workers’ movement to distinguish between honest, strike-ready workers from “agitators,” “rioters,” and other “uncontrollable elements” is an extension of this opposition between the plebs and the proletariat. The same logic is at work today when gangsters become security guards: in order to neutralize the Imaginary Party by playing one of its parts off the others."
                      https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/tiqqun-this-is-not-a-program

                      In other words, destroy the apparatuses, not the people.

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                      • f4grx@chaos.socialF f4grx@chaos.social

                        @yiorgos @peter billionaires contribute more effectively than me.

                        Btw, why are you defending billionaires? Are you one?

                        heliospi@neuromatch.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                        heliospi@neuromatch.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
                        heliospi@neuromatch.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #42

                        @f4grx
                        @yiorgos @peter
                        This a good example of how a project of popular retribution can creep towards terror, since difference is easily othered and lumped in with the enemy just for dissenting or not conforming.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • jwcph@helvede.netJ jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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