Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft I may be wrong about that but it seems to me that the debate shouldn't be about whether an AI wrote the code or not but about code quality and whether trusted humans validate it. If your contribution goes in a queue that is reviewed at human pace and you have a storage quota for your contributions there's no way slop of any origin get into mainstream. AI or not AI becomes irrelevant. But maybe I'm overlooking something.
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft I love it when techbros begin their argument with "I don't understand" as a rhetorical stance because it's always true in a way: they don't understand.
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft It should be easy to maintain stats on the slop producers regardless of origins and slow the worst offenders even further somehow. There's always a human motivation behind any AI production. That shouldn't be too hard to control I think.
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Just so you know. Linus who is adopting AI tools. Here is how it is going right now. Linus Torvalds let Claude Code fix the Linux page cache. Then reviewers found a race https://thenewstack.io/torvalds-claude-code-kernel/
@nixCraft But also… “Amanda Caswell is an AI journalist, certified prompt engineer, and technology commentator whose work and expertise have been featured on Fox News and CBS News […] TNS owner Insight Partners is an investor in: Anthropic”
(and the article is sprinkled with weird ambiguities. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was LLM-summarized or LLM-rewritten)
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft Man, that last paragraph, what a nasty guy.
My respect goes to the maintainers who manage to handle working with an asshole like this. I know I wouldn't be able to do it.
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@nixCraft Man, that last paragraph, what a nasty guy.
My respect goes to the maintainers who manage to handle working with an asshole like this. I know I wouldn't be able to do it.
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@nixCraft But also… “Amanda Caswell is an AI journalist, certified prompt engineer, and technology commentator whose work and expertise have been featured on Fox News and CBS News […] TNS owner Insight Partners is an investor in: Anthropic”
(and the article is sprinkled with weird ambiguities. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was LLM-summarized or LLM-rewritten)
@nixCraft Anyway, apparently LWN also (very briefly) covered this: https://lwn.net/Articles/1100449/
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@nixCraft Comparing deterministic tools to #AI is wild.
Yes, I would create rules about not using compilers & editors if they gave different output each time I used them, occasionally gave wrong output, sometimes gave SLIGHTLY wrong output, and were just running predictions based on my past inputs rather than following sets of rules.
@syntaxseed @nixCraft
I agree...and I most definitely would have rules for non-deterministic tools. Those were two inappropriate analogies. -
Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft This post is actually a pretty good reply to that, even if it is on LinkedIn... https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/ai-tool-rich-hickey-kjl8e
Use the tools you want - but don't use automation where your brain should do the job.
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom nowSomeone needs to explain logical fallacies to Linus because he doesn't seem to understand False Equivalence and Straw Man, among others 🫤
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@epistomai there are better tools than ollama for local AI. https://sleepingrobots.com/dreams/stop-using-ollama/ explains why.
@__jm It is shady, yes, but there are also locally models, not only cloud. I've learned a lot how to 'bubble' mine. Still, I know there are other tools, but are more convoluted to me.
I only use it because I am forced to right now, once I get rid of that nonsense I will
drop AI in any form -
Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft It's time we replace Linux with some other kernel by the way, it would be great if it was the Hurd
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft i'm sick and tired of borderline-eugenicist freakshows like linus and other techbros who are so obsessed with "intelligence" that they dismiss anyone and everyone who doesn't appear to display it in a way that affirms their own egos.
people like this shouldn't be leading or managing anything that involves other people.
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@nixCraft Uf what a bad take. Not all tools are created equal.
“No sharp knives in here because they can be misused for violence.”
“Oh, so I guess we can’t use straws or spoons either?! For that matter, this food shouldn’t be on a plate!”
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@iscarlosmolero @nixCraft Your reply doesn’t match the anti-AI sentiments on your bio, so I’m assuming you didn’t realize I was referring to Linus’ take.
Read slower and be less of a jerk, thanks.
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@iscarlosmolero @nixCraft Your reply doesn’t match the anti-AI sentiments on your bio, so I’m assuming you didn’t realize I was referring to Linus’ take.
Read slower and be less of a jerk, thanks.
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom now@nixCraft What a dipshit. If you make a mistake while typing, YOU made the mistake. If the LLM makes a mistake generating code for you, you had nothing to do with it and no way to prevent it.
If your compiler takes good code and introduces a bug, the compiler is bugged, and you can fix it. If the LLM takes your existing codebase and introduces a bug... no shit! What did you expect? There is nothing you can do to fix the LLM, because it's not broken. A compiler is deterministic (as is an editor), an LLM is stochastic. Two totally different categories of software.
The people I respect and call intelligent do their own work and bear full responsibility for it. They have principles and care about quality, reliability, and correctness. They evaluate things on their merits and don't chase fads because they're "new and interesting."
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@nixCraft AI code assistance is best for mondaine tasks, like boiler plate code, solutions used by many programmers, like the stuff you can find on stack exchange and friends. It is less useful for very mathematical issues. At least this is my impression. Most likely, Claude could create my Python code faster than I do, but I usually don't know what I want to build.
I would love to see studies on how well these tools perform with code close to machine hardware.
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@ireneista @loadhigh @nixCraft he really doesn’t get it at all. i don’t know if he’s being deliberately obtuse or if he’s just that hopelessly clueless, but it really seems to be the latter
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Linus Torvalds shares his thoughts on Anti-AI coding rules on Linux mailing list.
https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/CAHk-=whTs09_ozN+e09GU68N1wPP56MUzDjrg9rnKxQUa0A_4Q@mail.gmail.com/
He is doubling down on AI. This will come back to bite him. He thinks people using LLMs for coding are actually checking their work
Code reviewers are just rubber stamping PRs. Nobody in their right mind can look at 100s of PRs per day &d manually go through them especially since they don't even know if they'll have a IT job left at the end of the day. It's a race to the bottom nowI feel like AI is spewing out code it was trained with off projects that people aren't aware of, there's no attribution of that code.
So what happens if you take copywritten closed-source project code and add it to your open source project without knowing where that code snippet came from? Legally this sort of thing might kill open source projects as a result. Is Anthropic going to state all code generated is open source and copyright free? I don't think they can, and that is going to pollute the kernel?
AI code is extremely problematic in this sense.
