For now, I will no longer be uploading to the #Debian NEW queue.
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@debacle @spanezz @olasd @josch
I find pretending to answer to an upload in NEW queue solely by LLM unattended tooling is something to discuss, not automatically adopt.
It is a tool, as for lintian, not a team decision. As such, it should help the team, with a suitable review. Possibly, also the maintainer, but in both cases it cannot be considered an obligation.
@gisgeek it is a tool designed by technocratic fascists that is also completely unfit for any purpose and causes massive amounts of externalized harms. it should not be used at all.
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In the ongoing discussion [1], it looks like there's rough consensus to make the LLM NEW-queue reviews at least opt-out, and preferably opt-in. It's bad that someone thought that they could impose this without getting any objections, but it looks like there are plenty of objections (only one consequentalist claim - "but it works" - that I can see).
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2026/10/threads.html#00263
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@josch amen. Touching grass is the best thing we can do, us, careful people.
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@josch sorry you have to deal with this nonsense
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@josch
No worries, i saw the same criticism and people screaming they are leaving for using coding tools that highlight code syntax, FOSS life keeps going on without you.@paelnever @josch Did you though? I've never seen a FOSS development that forced a particular tool on coders. Those tools didn't destroy the environment.
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@paelnever @josch Did you though? I've never seen a FOSS development that forced a particular tool on coders. Those tools didn't destroy the environment.
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@TFF @josch Another AI 'benefit'. It should be even warmer next year when AI does its work for #ClimateChaos
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@spanezz I started moving some of my packages into the "Debian Commons" team for similar reasons. They can use their tokens to maintain these packages for all I care. Rest assured I'll keep following your account here last but not least to learn where you (and others) might move your FOSS involvement to. Debian is its people and if the people I like are elsewhere, then we will just work together on free software elsewhere.
@olasd -
I will continue uploading to #Debian NEW, but I will most likely not read any reaction to an upload, that has been written solely by an #LLM.
I love the Debian project for #human interactions. Let's keep Debian human or at least nice among #primates, naked or hairy.
While I'm personally very critical about use of LLMs, I do accept, if people use it to e.g. polish their english or similar things. But don't throw unfiltered AI output at primates. We deserve better
@debacle Yes, I actually think the Debian GR debate made me *less* extreme in this topic. Reading others on the mailing list and talking to people like Helmut made me realize that there are many, many shades of gray to consider when talking about this topic. We are probably unfortunately still at the stage where the mostly bad part far outweighs the parts where we use this technology responsibly and avoid most of its downsides. Yes, we must connect as humans again. @spanezz @olasd
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@josch I am so sorry Debian is going this route and that you found yourself in such position. That sucks. Hope your time outside is great (it is raining a lot here so it is time for coding with rain sounds for me)
@soapdog I have worked with computers so much in my life that more and more I'm in the camp of "maybe it would be better to live somewhere in the mountains with some goats and lots of nature around" The more I do with computers, the more I find myself learning to appreciate how friggin' beautiful it is outside and even how nice it feels to have your fingers burn when you bike through the rain because heck it reminds you that yes, you are alive and life and this planet are so amazing.
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@josch Thanks, you hit all the points I wanted to mention.
@bremner Uff thank you. I must admit that I tried very, very hard not to be too passive aggressive. I deleted *a lot* of things which just showed my frustration from early drafts of this mail and it was @werdahias who sent me his own draft privately a few days prior who motivated me to write up my own mail on the topic. I really dislike conflict which is also why I plan to not say more about this on d-devel. I've said what I came to say.
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@josch urgh i hate this tl...
sending virtual hugs@rick Thank you, much appreciated!
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@soapdog I have worked with computers so much in my life that more and more I'm in the camp of "maybe it would be better to live somewhere in the mountains with some goats and lots of nature around" The more I do with computers, the more I find myself learning to appreciate how friggin' beautiful it is outside and even how nice it feels to have your fingers burn when you bike through the rain because heck it reminds you that yes, you are alive and life and this planet are so amazing.
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@alxndr Oh dear, that reminds me of this screenshot somebody shared of a prompt they had with some chatbot where they said "no" only for the chatbot to then go on and write "you said no but i think what you really mean is..." and then went on to ignore the "no" and do the opposite... Sigh...
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@josch@floss.social
I'm afraid the capture of #Debian will pass through similar insulting behaviours (such pushing LLM output on people who refuse it) that will alienate all politically aware developers.
It's sad, but likely the goal of those who made this move.
Maybe you might find some joy working on #NetBSD or even on #9front.
Good luck!
And thanks for fighting this fight.@giacomo Oh yes, I absolutely am trying out #NetBSD on my hardware
https://community.mnt.re/t/status-of-netbsd-on-the-rk3588-pocket-reform/4699 -
In the ongoing discussion [1], it looks like there's rough consensus to make the LLM NEW-queue reviews at least opt-out, and preferably opt-in. It's bad that someone thought that they could impose this without getting any objections, but it looks like there are plenty of objections (only one consequentalist claim - "but it works" - that I can see).
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2026/10/threads.html#00263
@boud Yes, the DFSG team might implement some changes after having received quite a bit of feedback on this topic now. But even if they change it, I worry about the long-term situation. If I start having to worry "what problem will it be today?" when I wake up, then this hobby will become more dread and less fun and then I will just put my priorities elsewhere. @mildpeach @Lamuchan
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@TFF @josch Another AI 'benefit'. It should be even warmer next year when AI does its work for #ClimateChaos
@woo Oh the climate catastrophe... Did you hear that #Greenpeace loves LLMs? I had a talk with the technical staff of Greenpeace Germany and they are convinced that "AI is unavoidable" so they started using a chat bot to generate emails to city mayors. The fun twist: that was a campaign about taxing billionaires
I was involved in the Greenpeace group in my local city but left Greenpeace when this happened. @TFF -
P pelle@veganism.social shared this topic
