Anybody who has worked in IT support in the trenches in enterprise IT will tell you there are some Excel power users who basically run the company, are macros wizards and actual ninjas.. about 0.1% of the workforce.
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@bontchev @GossiTheDog Why would your hypothetical employee have become annoyed with you?
@xan @GossiTheDog Because I'm an annoying person. Pedantic, insisting on excellence, working long and odd hours, with a sarcastic sense of humor, etc.
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@bontchev Claude with effectively unlimited usage isn't going to stay $180/year for long. When they do usage based billing like everyone else has been forced to do it's really easy to have a 2 sentence input that costs $100
(It still might be cheaper than hiring a developer but it is still very expensive)
@malwareminigun You might be right but I'm talking about the right now, not about the future. And even before the boss bought me the Pro subscription, I managed to do quite a lot of work with the free version, which offers like 9 times less tokens per 5-hour session.
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@malwareminigun You might be right but I'm talking about the right now, not about the future. And even before the boss bought me the Pro subscription, I managed to do quite a lot of work with the free version, which offers like 9 times less tokens per 5-hour session.
@bontchev the future in question is months not years away. It's already here for pretty much every other provider. The ~$1 Trillion that was spent on hardware to power this stuff isn't getting paid back at $200/user/year
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@bontchev the future in question is months not years away. It's already here for pretty much every other provider. The ~$1 Trillion that was spent on hardware to power this stuff isn't getting paid back at $200/user/year
@malwareminigun That might be so but I was talking about the *now*. And now, Claude is perfectly affordable for what it can do. When it becomes too expensive, I'll stop using it.
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@malwareminigun That might be so but I was talking about the *now*. And now, Claude is perfectly affordable for what it can do. When it becomes too expensive, I'll stop using it.
@bontchev you're missing the point. This thread started with people talking about how AI was crazy expensive, and you saying, in my experience, it's cheap. The reason it's cheap for you right now is you're using a setup that subsidizes the crap out of it. Anyone using a path that doesn't have such subsidy is currently paying for it and it's not cheap. Those folks are paying those costs right now.
I'm not saying it's valueless, or don't use it, or you should change anything about what you are doing right now, i'm explaining why people are saying it's expensive. The employee at the beginning of this thread is easily costing a $1000 a day, just in AI usage.
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@GossiTheDog PS: we did raise these concerns when management announced everyone was getting Copilot. Took months (and months) to get them to agree to a test. “No one will be able to see anything they don’t already have access to,” they said.
️Yes. Exactly.
@Spartan_1986 @GossiTheDog A lot easier to *find* the stuff that you have access to but shouldn’t.
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@GossiTheDog And then there is the non-monetary costs. We recently completed our first penetration test against Copilot in my corp and to say we found a lot of secret and confidential stuff out there just for the prompting is an understatement. The company totally believed Microsoft when they said everything would be safe guarded, yet I personally found a document with every marketing service account name and password. Vender contracts, company secrets, legal documents: we found it all. Copilot in a corporate environment is the single largest amplifier of poor IAM configurations. It is the largest insider threat I’ve ever seen.
Parameters of the test?
And as it in the compartmentalised corpo environment or public?
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In an era where companies need to become more efficient and diverse they’ve basically picked the least efficient way to do it, with the biggest risks and highest costs - because everybody else is doing it.
I know somebody at one of the big 4 who has written something in Claude that prompts Claude each twenty minutes for a question, then feeds Claude’s question back into Claude to use their tokens - because token usage is factored into employee evaluations. What are we even doing.
@GossiTheDog That sounds like reinforcement training to me. /s
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@GossiTheDog And then there is the non-monetary costs. We recently completed our first penetration test against Copilot in my corp and to say we found a lot of secret and confidential stuff out there just for the prompting is an understatement. The company totally believed Microsoft when they said everything would be safe guarded, yet I personally found a document with every marketing service account name and password. Vender contracts, company secrets, legal documents: we found it all. Copilot in a corporate environment is the single largest amplifier of poor IAM configurations. It is the largest insider threat I’ve ever seen.
@Spartan_1986 @GossiTheDog The obscurity is gone
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In an era where companies need to become more efficient and diverse they’ve basically picked the least efficient way to do it, with the biggest risks and highest costs - because everybody else is doing it.
I know somebody at one of the big 4 who has written something in Claude that prompts Claude each twenty minutes for a question, then feeds Claude’s question back into Claude to use their tokens - because token usage is factored into employee evaluations. What are we even doing.
@GossiTheDog The security risk surrounding all these users with access to LLM's with access to all that corporate data is chilling.
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@malwareminigun @GossiTheDog No attribution necessary, it's AI generated.
@hans5524 @malwareminigun @GossiTheDog Yep it is, this exact piece made the rounds a few weeks ago. There was a very thorough thread where every little AI tell was poured over in detail.
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In an era where companies need to become more efficient and diverse they’ve basically picked the least efficient way to do it, with the biggest risks and highest costs - because everybody else is doing it.
I know somebody at one of the big 4 who has written something in Claude that prompts Claude each twenty minutes for a question, then feeds Claude’s question back into Claude to use their tokens - because token usage is factored into employee evaluations. What are we even doing.
@GossiTheDog there’s an old tale about optimizing for the wrong things. Something about getting rid of rats only made a market for breeding them.
Guess that means we’ll burn the planet and use up all the drinkable water to autocomplete our homework and live life without having to deal with people.
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In an era where companies need to become more efficient and diverse they’ve basically picked the least efficient way to do it, with the biggest risks and highest costs - because everybody else is doing it.
I know somebody at one of the big 4 who has written something in Claude that prompts Claude each twenty minutes for a question, then feeds Claude’s question back into Claude to use their tokens - because token usage is factored into employee evaluations. What are we even doing.
@GossiTheDog @paninid That's actually the smartest use of AI (given the constraints imposed) that I've heard about so far
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@bontchev you're missing the point. This thread started with people talking about how AI was crazy expensive, and you saying, in my experience, it's cheap. The reason it's cheap for you right now is you're using a setup that subsidizes the crap out of it. Anyone using a path that doesn't have such subsidy is currently paying for it and it's not cheap. Those folks are paying those costs right now.
I'm not saying it's valueless, or don't use it, or you should change anything about what you are doing right now, i'm explaining why people are saying it's expensive. The employee at the beginning of this thread is easily costing a $1000 a day, just in AI usage.
@malwareminigun I don't dispute that it's cheap right now because it is subsidized - but that's besides the point. The point is that it *is* (or at least can be, as demonstrated in my case) very cheap right now compared to the value it brings.
Yes, that's likely to change. When it changes, I'll revaluate. I am not arguing that AI won't become too expensive to use. I'm arguing that AI can be quite cheap to use (while bringing tremendous value) *right now* - for whatever reasons.
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@404mediaco/116908074107231828
Anybody who has worked in IT support in the trenches in enterprise IT will tell you there are some Excel power users who basically run the company, are macros wizards and actual ninjas.. about 0.1% of the workforce. About 99% of people can’t align a table in Word.
Giving the 99% of people tools which cost $$$ per user a month and letting them do anything is like giving a child a car, and being surprised when they ram the car into a wall three days later and cost $10k after achieving nothing.
@GossiTheDog
And the tech firms didn't even only give cars to their children but explicitly told them to drive as much and as fast as they possibly could 🤯 -
RE: https://mastodon.social/@404mediaco/116908074107231828
Anybody who has worked in IT support in the trenches in enterprise IT will tell you there are some Excel power users who basically run the company, are macros wizards and actual ninjas.. about 0.1% of the workforce. About 99% of people can’t align a table in Word.
Giving the 99% of people tools which cost $$$ per user a month and letting them do anything is like giving a child a car, and being surprised when they ram the car into a wall three days later and cost $10k after achieving nothing.
@GossiTheDog @blogdiva I am not an Excel wizard but I am a weirdo who can align tables in Word.
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@GossiTheDog honestly, isn't most of the stuff IT teams do nowadays extremely wasteful?
I look at CI pipelines and feel the need to scream.
Upgrade your OS image with hundreds of packages on every push,
Build all layers of your container every time...
Then migrate to the next git service and CI/CD framework every year, complete rewrites.
How many bloody Artifactory mirrors does a company need?!!!Etc. etc. These kids should start with a C64 or ZX80 before let loose on this hot garbage
@brnrd @GossiTheDog Wait wait wait. Is this why I have to update and restart my enterprise laptop all the time? And when I have to do it one time, I will probably have to do it one or two more times on the same day?
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@404mediaco/116908074107231828
Anybody who has worked in IT support in the trenches in enterprise IT will tell you there are some Excel power users who basically run the company, are macros wizards and actual ninjas.. about 0.1% of the workforce. About 99% of people can’t align a table in Word.
Giving the 99% of people tools which cost $$$ per user a month and letting them do anything is like giving a child a car, and being surprised when they ram the car into a wall three days later and cost $10k after achieving nothing.
@GossiTheDog I once had a colleague who wrote letters, official letters, with Excel.
When I asked why not word he said:
In Excel I can align the indent, tabs and the paragraphs better.Case closed your honour.
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@404mediaco/116908074107231828
Anybody who has worked in IT support in the trenches in enterprise IT will tell you there are some Excel power users who basically run the company, are macros wizards and actual ninjas.. about 0.1% of the workforce. About 99% of people can’t align a table in Word.
Giving the 99% of people tools which cost $$$ per user a month and letting them do anything is like giving a child a car, and being surprised when they ram the car into a wall three days later and cost $10k after achieving nothing.
@GossiTheDog “A fool with a tool is still a fool”
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@GossiTheDog This is stupid, of course - but, as they say, show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome.
Still, I don't quite understand the "cost" thing. If used properly, AI should reduce cost. By using Claude, I was able to do in 3 months what I previously couldn't do in 5 years. This is on a Pro subscription (the cheapest one) that costs something like 180 euros per year.
If we had hired a professional programmer for the same work, their *monthly* salary would have been more than 10 times higher - and they would have become annoyed with me and left after 2 months anyway.
That period is over since 1st of June. Actual billing schema is on a different level.
