hey so about your favorite boy hank green.
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@davidgerard I’m very serious about this by the way
if you respect science, you must not forgive hank green. you must spread the word on what he’s done, especially if you used to be a fan. this is corruption in the raw and what he’s done must be known.
if you respect science, you must verify the claims of science communicators independently and reject any who are doing marketing. most of the major YouTube science communicators are doing paid, undisclosed marketing for effective altruists or for political groups. this isn’t hard to spot, but you must be critical and you can’t let yourself be impressed by perceived celebrity, popularity, or production values.
if you respect science, you have to demand accountability. science is actively under attack and if we don’t do anything to defend it, we will be in a new dark age. this is the moment, and you don’t have to do much. you just have to be very loud and very unforgiving.
@zzt @davidgerard It's probably common knowledge, but pretty obviously same for Kurzgesagt.
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No, I was misreading. The phrasing of OP implied to me that the linked post had evidence for the tiktok cult thing, not the hank green claim.
*reads linked post*
and, having read through the linked post and the WaPo article, I don't see anything in there beyond "he did a single video which was a disclosed sponsorship", while also doing other videos where he said he disagrees with it?
Certainly doesn't look good but this feels very much like "internet people being internet people and turning everything into the worst possible version of reality"
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Shame on Green, but if I permanently banned everyone on the internet who did something colossally stupid or bought into some terrible narrative before, I would have no one but a couple of totally insufferable arseholes and some teenagers who joined the internet yesterday to talk to. (And folk wouldn’t talk to me either)
@MichaelTBacon @zzt @davidgerard getting the feeling you ought not talk to teenagers
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@davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt tescrealism is always inextricable from eugenics. if you believe the entire universe can be calculated and optimized then you also believe that the differences between people can be calculated and optimized.
@emenel @davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt the whole of tech is just eugenics. Stanford sort of started as a eugenics project
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@emenel @davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt the whole of tech is just eugenics. Stanford sort of started as a eugenics project
@emenel @davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt I say “sort of” because each of the three founders had different plans - technical college, psychic university and eugenics science. The eugenics guy won
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@davidgerard and while we’re here: don’t take Green’s apology at face value. he’s paid to influence you. LLM addiction is a convenient out, especially if he suspects the jig is up.
keep in mind that this guy got paid to get you interested in something that he now says is addictive. that thing is additionally a known vector for misinformation. he has done damage. he has more than enough resources and knowledge to try and undo some of that damage.
until Hank Green materially fixes some of the damage caused by LLMs, generative AI, and his promotion of them, you shouldn’t accept his current apology or any apology he makes in the future. if he makes vague motions in the direction of fixing some of it, don’t underestimate the severity of the damage. do not forgive this man unless and until he does something real.
this isn’t a high bar, it’s common decency. I don’t think he’s gonna manage.
@zzt @davidgerard Solid copy
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@bms @davidgerard @ireneista @noiseician @zzt Operation Clambake! Now that takes me back. First newsgroup I ever subscribed to.
@checkmite @bms @davidgerard @ireneista @noiseician @zzt WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES...ARE YOU UPSTAT?
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@checkmite @bms @davidgerard @ireneista @noiseician @zzt WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES...ARE YOU UPSTAT?
@checkmite @bms @davidgerard @ireneista @noiseician @zzt memories of walking past the scientology building in zurich's lochergut coming back from a night out in town, and seeing some poor suckers sitting at the front reception desk at like 2am
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@davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt tescrealism is always inextricable from eugenics. if you believe the entire universe can be calculated and optimized then you also believe that the differences between people can be calculated and optimized.
@emenel @davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt TESCREAL is also predicated on the same organizing assumptions as post-Nicean Christianity. It's a syncretistic religion following the same design pattern, minus God and Jesus. Conclusion: Christianity gave rise to eugenics and racism (and also animal cruelty via the doctrine of mind/body dualism, animals don't have "souls", but I digress).
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@emenel @davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt TESCREAL is also predicated on the same organizing assumptions as post-Nicean Christianity. It's a syncretistic religion following the same design pattern, minus God and Jesus. Conclusion: Christianity gave rise to eugenics and racism (and also animal cruelty via the doctrine of mind/body dualism, animals don't have "souls", but I digress).
@cstross @emenel @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt Roko's basilisk was a good go at a vengeful Yahweh, complete with the detail that the basilisk is the *good* AI torturing you out of ethical necessity
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@checkmite @bms @davidgerard @ireneista @noiseician @zzt memories of walking past the scientology building in zurich's lochergut coming back from a night out in town, and seeing some poor suckers sitting at the front reception desk at like 2am
@patrick_h_lauke @checkmite @bms @ireneista @noiseician @zzt my old site is still up https://suburbia.net/~fun/scn/
the days when 7MB was a large website, not a large web page
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@cstross @emenel @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt Roko's basilisk was a good go at a vengeful Yahweh, complete with the detail that the basilisk is the *good* AI torturing you out of ethical necessity
@davidgerard Eh? My take was that Roko's Basilisk was Calvinist Satan, punishing people for eternity because they were predestined for punishment for not being one of the Elect who were Saved because [incomprehensible belief-based selection process].
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@noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt I do! It's "More Everything Forever" by Adam Becker and it's the book I was failing to write over 2018-2021!
@davidgerard @noodlemaz @noiseician @ireneista @zzt jumping in to add that if you like listening to podcasts, Behind the Bastards has a great series of episodes on the Zizians that gets into the weeds on Less Wrong and the Bay area rationalists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mJAerUL-7w
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@davidgerard Eh? My take was that Roko's Basilisk was Calvinist Satan, punishing people for eternity because they were predestined for punishment for not being one of the Elect who were Saved because [incomprehensible belief-based selection process].
@cstross oh no, Roko is very clear that this is the Coherent Extrapolated Volition (CEV), the AI charged with preserving human value, the *good* AI that was Yudkowsky's goal
that's why it upset so many rationalists, it was an extrapolation of Yudkowsky's actual goal to disaster
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@cstross oh no, Roko is very clear that this is the Coherent Extrapolated Volition (CEV), the AI charged with preserving human value, the *good* AI that was Yudkowsky's goal
that's why it upset so many rationalists, it was an extrapolation of Yudkowsky's actual goal to disaster
@davidgerard @cstross It's very silly.
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@cstross oh no, Roko is very clear that this is the Coherent Extrapolated Volition (CEV), the AI charged with preserving human value, the *good* AI that was Yudkowsky's goal
that's why it upset so many rationalists, it was an extrapolation of Yudkowsky's actual goal to disaster
The basilisk also only punishes believers, which is kind of the opposite of what the god of Reformed Christianity does.
Hilariously, this doctrine falls squarely into one of the oldest traps of Christianity: if innocently ignorant nonbelievers aren't damned, then leaving them to their ignorance is the moral thing to do, right? By alleviating their ignorance you'll just create the possibility of their damnation.
That means that a faith which wants to spread via missionaries has to either believe that innocent ignorance is damnable, or else suppress this line of thought. Christianity chose the former, and Yudkowsky chose the latter.
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The basilisk also only punishes believers, which is kind of the opposite of what the god of Reformed Christianity does.
Hilariously, this doctrine falls squarely into one of the oldest traps of Christianity: if innocently ignorant nonbelievers aren't damned, then leaving them to their ignorance is the moral thing to do, right? By alleviating their ignorance you'll just create the possibility of their damnation.
That means that a faith which wants to spread via missionaries has to either believe that innocent ignorance is damnable, or else suppress this line of thought. Christianity chose the former, and Yudkowsky chose the latter.
@passenger @davidgerard And then there are those of us atheists who were born into and grew up in non-Christian religions and think Christian dogma is hilarious wank.
(Except when it's coming with pitchforks and torches to murder your community.)
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@passenger @davidgerard And then there are those of us atheists who were born into and grew up in non-Christian religions and think Christian dogma is hilarious wank.
(Except when it's coming with pitchforks and torches to murder your community.)
As an atheist who grew up in a churchgoing family, I assure you that you cannot possibly think worse of Christianity than I do.
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As an atheist who grew up in a churchgoing family, I assure you that you cannot possibly think worse of Christianity than I do.
@passenger @davidgerard Self-identified Christians murdered most of my extended family two generations ago. (I recognize that not all Christians are murderers by inclination, but it's not the kind of thing you can un-see once you're aware of it.)
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@passenger @davidgerard Self-identified Christians murdered most of my extended family two generations ago. (I recognize that not all Christians are murderers by inclination, but it's not the kind of thing you can un-see once you're aware of it.)
My ancestors fled from Europe because they were the survivors of the massacres that Christians were carrying on against other Christians in Europe. The survivors were very much a minority.
I don't want to downplay what your family went through. I can feel kinship for it.
Did my ancestors learn from this that massacres are bad? No, they learned that their form of Christianity needed to become equally violent and oppressive, and they taught that violence and oppression to their kids. They became exactly the sort of people who would do the massacres in turn, and they did it in the name of Christ.
Not everyone is a murderer by inclination, as you say. I think a lot of it has to be taught: you are taught to dehumanise the victims, and you are taught ways to manage your conscience. To do that sort of teaching properly takes generations, and having seen it up close I don't want it to remain extant.
