Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep 🙂 :
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@rodolforg @Lacze @kris @Vivaldi They include a bunch of invasive apps and services in the OS. They send user data to OpenAI and other third parties without consent.
Despite being heavily marketed as avoiding Google and portraying privacy as being all about that when it isn't, /e/ adds a bunch of default enabled Google services. They give extensive privileged access to those Google services and other Google apps. They download and run Google Play code with privileged access by default.
@rodolforg @Lacze @kris @Vivaldi /e/ is a fork of LineageOS which is a far more sensible replacement for the stock OS on a broad range of devices. LineageOS doesn't regress privacy and security nearly as much including not lagging nearly as far behind on updates. Neither makes an insecure end-of-life device safe to use despite that common misconception, but there are devices where LineageOS gets decent updates while /e/ never does.
More info including 3rd party sources:
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota Moving from an iPhone to a device from Jolla, Volla or Murena is a massive downgrade for privacy and security. You're recommending people use devices failing to provide crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections. Using devices which lag many months to even years behind upstream patches isn't safe. It's an extreme contrast with iPhones protecting strong protections.
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@tomminieminen I wouldn’t advise as recently a user has reported that it you go above the limits, against their own policy, that they will delete all of your user data without recovery
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/s/spcNpJc73e It’s not great I can’t lie
@rail @tomminieminen Can you give us something reassuring in this topic? Will this be fixed? @filen
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@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota Moving from an iPhone to a device from Jolla, Volla or Murena is a massive downgrade for privacy and security. You're recommending people use devices failing to provide crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections. Using devices which lag many months to even years behind upstream patches isn't safe. It's an extreme contrast with iPhones protecting strong protections.
@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota /e/ and Murena have heavily pushed the narrative that protecting strong privacy and security protections primarily benefits criminals. They've repeatedly portrayed providing strong defenses for privacy and security weaknesses as being something not relevant to regular people. Computing devices need far better privacy and security to protect regular people.
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True, though Graphene could use some alternatives to the Pixel and Motorola's _flagship_-to-be... something Murena has caught on to... (competition is good, I hope this encourages it!)
@stonebear2 @kris @Vivaldi All /e/ and Murena device are missing crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections. The reason they support a massive range of devices is because they don't actually care about privacy but rather only making money. They mislead users about what's provided while sending off their data to third parties and failing to protect them from severe privacy and security holes. They claim strong privacy and security is for criminals.
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@Vivaldi I'm pretty sure @GrapheneOS are likely to have an opinion on your choice of iOS/Android alternatives.
@kris @Vivaldi @GrapheneOS Well, the post was about European alternatives, so Graphene is out of scope being Canadian.
On the other hand, Google is working hard to render both Murena and Graphene based devices useless.
On the long run, I think, pure Linux based alternatives can get us out of this trap. Like SailfishOs from @jolla and @postmarketOS.
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@kris @Vivaldi @GrapheneOS Well, the post was about European alternatives, so Graphene is out of scope being Canadian.
On the other hand, Google is working hard to render both Murena and Graphene based devices useless.
On the long run, I think, pure Linux based alternatives can get us out of this trap. Like SailfishOs from @jolla and @postmarketOS.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi Your claim Google is working to make GrapheneOS devices useless is untrue. If you mean the Play Integrity API, that impacts any OS regardless of whether it's based on the Android Open Source Project (AOSP).
SailfishOS and traditional desktop Linux operating systems are drastically less private and secure than AOSP. Linux doesn't mean glibc, systemd and GNOME. AOSP and GrapheneOS aren't somehow not Linux due to larger userspace differences from desktop Linux.
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi Your claim Google is working to make GrapheneOS devices useless is untrue. If you mean the Play Integrity API, that impacts any OS regardless of whether it's based on the Android Open Source Project (AOSP).
SailfishOS and traditional desktop Linux operating systems are drastically less private and secure than AOSP. Linux doesn't mean glibc, systemd and GNOME. AOSP and GrapheneOS aren't somehow not Linux due to larger userspace differences from desktop Linux.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi It's not unclear why you want the far less private, secure, functional and compatible closed source SailfishOS software stack over open source AOSP.
Volla, Jolla and Murena devices have drastically worse privacy and security than an iPhone. Vivaldi is recommending people move from hardware and software with very strong privacy and security protections to platforms not doing the bare minimum including not providing standard privacy/security patches and protections.
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi It's not unclear why you want the far less private, secure, functional and compatible closed source SailfishOS software stack over open source AOSP.
Volla, Jolla and Murena devices have drastically worse privacy and security than an iPhone. Vivaldi is recommending people move from hardware and software with very strong privacy and security protections to platforms not doing the bare minimum including not providing standard privacy/security patches and protections.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi iPhones and GrapheneOS devices provide users with strong privacy and security protections. Both are at the leading edge of protecting against privacy and security weaknesses being exploited by apps, services and exploit tools. Meanwhille, /e/ and Murena have heavily pushed the false narrative that strong privacy and security protections mainly benefit criminals to justify the awful privacy and security of their operating system and devices:
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi iPhones and GrapheneOS devices provide users with strong privacy and security protections. Both are at the leading edge of protecting against privacy and security weaknesses being exploited by apps, services and exploit tools. Meanwhille, /e/ and Murena have heavily pushed the false narrative that strong privacy and security protections mainly benefit criminals to justify the awful privacy and security of their operating system and devices:
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi From 2015 through 2023, Jolla was largely owned by a Russian state enterprise and heavily worked with the Russian government. Russia has a government fork called Aurora OS despite SailfishOS being largely closed source as they have special access. Russia began invading/occupying Ukraine back in 2014 and was heavily sanctioned. Jolla partnered with them after this was ongoing. The same management who chose that path and stuck with it so long are still running Jolla.
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi It's not unclear why you want the far less private, secure, functional and compatible closed source SailfishOS software stack over open source AOSP.
Volla, Jolla and Murena devices have drastically worse privacy and security than an iPhone. Vivaldi is recommending people move from hardware and software with very strong privacy and security protections to platforms not doing the bare minimum including not providing standard privacy/security patches and protections.
@GrapheneOS @kris @Vivaldi Let’s not mix things up. The paternalistic behavior of tech companies has nothing to do with security. It’s only about locking users in to exploit them.
Just like some politicians who can't stop talking about keeping people safe, but really just want to take away their freedom.
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi From 2015 through 2023, Jolla was largely owned by a Russian state enterprise and heavily worked with the Russian government. Russia has a government fork called Aurora OS despite SailfishOS being largely closed source as they have special access. Russia began invading/occupying Ukraine back in 2014 and was heavily sanctioned. Jolla partnered with them after this was ongoing. The same management who chose that path and stuck with it so long are still running Jolla.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi GrapheneOS is an international project. It's a non-profit open source project and doesn't have a business model or shareholders. We have a non-profit based in Canada which funds and supports the project but we're free to form non-profits in other countries. The 3 directors of our Canadian non-profit are citizens of Canada, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Under 10% of our team are Canadian. We don't consider GrapheneOS to have a nationality and don't present it that way.
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@GrapheneOS @kris @Vivaldi Let’s not mix things up. The paternalistic behavior of tech companies has nothing to do with security. It’s only about locking users in to exploit them.
Just like some politicians who can't stop talking about keeping people safe, but really just want to take away their freedom.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi Those devices have awful privacy and security which is not excused by the behavior of other companies. Failing to provide crucial standard privacy and security patches for many months and even multiple years is a serious failure. Not providing important standard standard privacy and security protections needed to stop apps, services and exploit tools from getting user data is also a serious failure. Those 3 companies are exploiting people with their false marketing.
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi Those devices have awful privacy and security which is not excused by the behavior of other companies. Failing to provide crucial standard privacy and security patches for many months and even multiple years is a serious failure. Not providing important standard standard privacy and security protections needed to stop apps, services and exploit tools from getting user data is also a serious failure. Those 3 companies are exploiting people with their false marketing.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi SailfishOS keeping most of their user interface and application layer closed source with only the Russian government able to fork it as part of their 2015-2023 partnership is designed to lock in users. The only reason for SailfishOS to keep so much closed source is to keep it under their control.
Volla is pushing adoption of their anti-competitive Unified Attestation putting them in control of which devices and OSes users are allowed to run:
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@nizarus you may find this interesting
@bargo Yep
Thanks. -
Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota @jolla @volla @murena
Check this out:
https://european-alternatives.eu
It's how I found your awesome browser.
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@stonebear2 @kris @Vivaldi All /e/ and Murena device are missing crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections. The reason they support a massive range of devices is because they don't actually care about privacy but rather only making money. They mislead users about what's provided while sending off their data to third parties and failing to protect them from severe privacy and security holes. They claim strong privacy and security is for criminals.
Strong words, sir, would you care to provide _external_ references?
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota @jolla @volla @murena
I missed FairPhone (NL) in the List. It's maybe the most sostainable phone in the market, you can change, update or substitute any component by yourself if you want, without the need of an workshop if something break or get obsolete.
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J jeppe@uddannelse.social shared this topic
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
@Vivaldi @Tutanota @JustinMac84 let's do another round of European alternatives to big tech that are accessible to screen reader users...yeah..the list shortens rather significantly, sadly, because without legal frameworks in place noone caters for accessibility without a legislative gun to their head. I wish it weren't true but it just is. So "because we care" rings a bit hollow.
