Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep 🙂 :
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi It's not unclear why you want the far less private, secure, functional and compatible closed source SailfishOS software stack over open source AOSP.
Volla, Jolla and Murena devices have drastically worse privacy and security than an iPhone. Vivaldi is recommending people move from hardware and software with very strong privacy and security protections to platforms not doing the bare minimum including not providing standard privacy/security patches and protections.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi iPhones and GrapheneOS devices provide users with strong privacy and security protections. Both are at the leading edge of protecting against privacy and security weaknesses being exploited by apps, services and exploit tools. Meanwhille, /e/ and Murena have heavily pushed the false narrative that strong privacy and security protections mainly benefit criminals to justify the awful privacy and security of their operating system and devices:
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi iPhones and GrapheneOS devices provide users with strong privacy and security protections. Both are at the leading edge of protecting against privacy and security weaknesses being exploited by apps, services and exploit tools. Meanwhille, /e/ and Murena have heavily pushed the false narrative that strong privacy and security protections mainly benefit criminals to justify the awful privacy and security of their operating system and devices:
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi From 2015 through 2023, Jolla was largely owned by a Russian state enterprise and heavily worked with the Russian government. Russia has a government fork called Aurora OS despite SailfishOS being largely closed source as they have special access. Russia began invading/occupying Ukraine back in 2014 and was heavily sanctioned. Jolla partnered with them after this was ongoing. The same management who chose that path and stuck with it so long are still running Jolla.
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi It's not unclear why you want the far less private, secure, functional and compatible closed source SailfishOS software stack over open source AOSP.
Volla, Jolla and Murena devices have drastically worse privacy and security than an iPhone. Vivaldi is recommending people move from hardware and software with very strong privacy and security protections to platforms not doing the bare minimum including not providing standard privacy/security patches and protections.
@GrapheneOS @kris @Vivaldi Let’s not mix things up. The paternalistic behavior of tech companies has nothing to do with security. It’s only about locking users in to exploit them.
Just like some politicians who can't stop talking about keeping people safe, but really just want to take away their freedom.
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi From 2015 through 2023, Jolla was largely owned by a Russian state enterprise and heavily worked with the Russian government. Russia has a government fork called Aurora OS despite SailfishOS being largely closed source as they have special access. Russia began invading/occupying Ukraine back in 2014 and was heavily sanctioned. Jolla partnered with them after this was ongoing. The same management who chose that path and stuck with it so long are still running Jolla.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi GrapheneOS is an international project. It's a non-profit open source project and doesn't have a business model or shareholders. We have a non-profit based in Canada which funds and supports the project but we're free to form non-profits in other countries. The 3 directors of our Canadian non-profit are citizens of Canada, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. Under 10% of our team are Canadian. We don't consider GrapheneOS to have a nationality and don't present it that way.
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@GrapheneOS @kris @Vivaldi Let’s not mix things up. The paternalistic behavior of tech companies has nothing to do with security. It’s only about locking users in to exploit them.
Just like some politicians who can't stop talking about keeping people safe, but really just want to take away their freedom.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi Those devices have awful privacy and security which is not excused by the behavior of other companies. Failing to provide crucial standard privacy and security patches for many months and even multiple years is a serious failure. Not providing important standard standard privacy and security protections needed to stop apps, services and exploit tools from getting user data is also a serious failure. Those 3 companies are exploiting people with their false marketing.
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi Those devices have awful privacy and security which is not excused by the behavior of other companies. Failing to provide crucial standard privacy and security patches for many months and even multiple years is a serious failure. Not providing important standard standard privacy and security protections needed to stop apps, services and exploit tools from getting user data is also a serious failure. Those 3 companies are exploiting people with their false marketing.
@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi SailfishOS keeping most of their user interface and application layer closed source with only the Russian government able to fork it as part of their 2015-2023 partnership is designed to lock in users. The only reason for SailfishOS to keep so much closed source is to keep it under their control.
Volla is pushing adoption of their anti-competitive Unified Attestation putting them in control of which devices and OSes users are allowed to run:
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@nizarus you may find this interesting
@bargo Yep
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota @jolla @volla @murena
Check this out:
https://european-alternatives.eu
It's how I found your awesome browser.
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@stonebear2 @kris @Vivaldi All /e/ and Murena device are missing crucial standard privacy/security patches and protections. The reason they support a massive range of devices is because they don't actually care about privacy but rather only making money. They mislead users about what's provided while sending off their data to third parties and failing to protect them from severe privacy and security holes. They claim strong privacy and security is for criminals.
Strong words, sir, would you care to provide _external_ references?
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota @jolla @volla @murena
I missed FairPhone (NL) in the List. It's maybe the most sostainable phone in the market, you can change, update or substitute any component by yourself if you want, without the need of an workshop if something break or get obsolete.
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J jeppe@uddannelse.social shared this topic
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Let's do another round of European alternatives to Big Tech, because we care and we don't gatekeep
:- Chrome, Edge, Safari --> @Vivaldi
- iCloud, Google Drive --> @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network, @Mastodon, Cryptee
- Google Search --> @StartpageSearch @Qwant , @ecosia, @Mojeek, Tiger.ch
- MS Office --> @libreoffice
- Gmail --> @Tutanota , @protonprivacy Mail
- iPhone --> @jolla @volla
- iOS, Android --> @murena e/OS…& much more: https://europeantechmap.eu
@Vivaldi @Tutanota @JustinMac84 let's do another round of European alternatives to big tech that are accessible to screen reader users...yeah..the list shortens rather significantly, sadly, because without legal frameworks in place noone caters for accessibility without a legislative gun to their head. I wish it weren't true but it just is. So "because we care" rings a bit hollow.
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@Vivaldi @Tutanota @JustinMac84 let's do another round of European alternatives to big tech that are accessible to screen reader users...yeah..the list shortens rather significantly, sadly, because without legal frameworks in place noone caters for accessibility without a legislative gun to their head. I wish it weren't true but it just is. So "because we care" rings a bit hollow.
@bermudianbrit @Vivaldi @Tutanota I keep nagging Vivaldi to become accessible to the visually impaired. They say they're working on it. Yup I wish open source were more accessible. the "Just use Linux" you get a lot on here just ain't that easy.
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@david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi It's not unclear why you want the far less private, secure, functional and compatible closed source SailfishOS software stack over open source AOSP.
Volla, Jolla and Murena devices have drastically worse privacy and security than an iPhone. Vivaldi is recommending people move from hardware and software with very strong privacy and security protections to platforms not doing the bare minimum including not providing standard privacy/security patches and protections.
@GrapheneOS @david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi The reason is digital sovereignty.
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Strong words, sir, would you care to provide _external_ references?
@stonebear2 The linked thread has a video showing what we said. /e/ and Murena have said the same thing in other interviews and their own posts repeatedly and it's not hard to find other examples. We can link to a few more examples if you want to see those. The linked thread has other sources linked in it too.
Read https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private and the linked content from Divested Computing in the article. It also has other sources. What we've posted in this thread and there is verifiable info.
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@GrapheneOS @david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi The reason is digital sovereignty.
@ocelot221 @david_bardos @kris @Vivaldi Digital sovereignty refers to government control over data, devices and services of people in the country. GrapheneOS exists to protect users against surveillance including from governments rather than working to enable it. We plan to protect our users from future authoritarian laws in countries where we operate including through willingness to move where we operate if that's ever necessary. /e/ has quite the opposite approach:
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@Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota /e/ and Murena have heavily pushed the narrative that protecting strong privacy and security protections primarily benefits criminals. They've repeatedly portrayed providing strong defenses for privacy and security weaknesses as being something not relevant to regular people. Computing devices need far better privacy and security to protect regular people.
@GrapheneOS @Vivaldi @protonprivacy @infomaniak_network @Mastodon @StartpageSearch @Qwant @ecosia @Mojeek @libreoffice @Tutanota
I think the main criteria of this post's recommendations was "European". I'm guessing GOS doesn't have that geographic requirement.
It's an odd choice to localize privacy recommendations on Vivaldi's part, as opposed to offering the most secure/runner up options.
Wouldn't recommend their phone/OS choices either.
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B bettina@mastodon.nu shared this topic
