CONTEXT
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@nikatjef @dnkboston @GhostOnTheHalfShell
so what is your argument? stay on fossil fuels?
i think you would say no
and thus do you see the foolishness of this constant insistence on perfectionism?
obviously EVs result in less fossil fuel use
that is the point
we iterate and move to even better, EVs without the problem you describe
we can't do that until we get off fossil fuels
that is all we can do: better, then iterate
stop reading and believing shilled fossil fuel industry arguments
@benroyce @nikatjef @dnkboston @GhostOnTheHalfShell
I like to think that 185 millions years from now, when a civilization of octopuses rise, they'll use our human remnants as fuel for their vehicles.
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@ChuckMcManis @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva Breeder reactors don't output more uranium than what is fed into the system, they make more *fissible* material than they are supplied with
"Orange juice from concentrate" isn't more oranges than it took to produce
Our world's matter-system is all but a closed loop, we're not getting - or making - more of it. But our is bombarded by all the energy we could use and we let it just slip away because there's no gold-pressed latinum
Yes, but the point of the Oak Ridge demonstration was a nuclear fuel cycle that ran "forever." Not trying to divert this wonderful discussion, just noting that 'nuclear' can be 'renewable'
. I too rage against folks who just want to go back to living in caves with 99% of the current population gone. -
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva
you're a toxic idealist
a whiny useless perfectionist
of course mining for solar and batteries sucks
*and* a smaller footprint than fossil fuel extraction
*and* far better for climate change
you fucking purists are an enemy of the real left as bad as MAGA
ALL YOU GET IN THIS WORLD IS BETTER
PERFECT IS NOT ON THE MENU
are you shilling for the fossil fuel industry or are you just that fucking stupid and blind?
stop following me, you stupid asshole
@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva As to the battery issue, the good news is that lithium batteries are recyclable so over time lithium mining can get greatly reduced once we reach “peak battery.” Recycling batteries could provide a majority of the lithium needed, though there would always be a need for lithium mines.
Compare to oil which isn't recyclable and always needs to be replaced as we use it.
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@tuban_muzuru @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
good
and thank you
and now you understand the idiocy of GhostOnTheHalfShell, arguing against that, merely out of toxic idealism
this marks that account as a shill of the fossil fuel industry or just too fucking stupid to see that the only real world effect of their perfectionist bullshit is to help the fossil fuel industry
@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
@GhostOnTheHalfShell looks at the problem from a kinetic energy perspective. Everything has undeniable conseqences - look at Lake Mead,
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@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
@GhostOnTheHalfShell looks at the problem from a kinetic energy perspective. Everything has undeniable conseqences - look at Lake Mead,
@tuban_muzuru @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
right so we get our energy from the sun rather than digging it up. vast improvement
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@benroyce @nikatjef @dnkboston @GhostOnTheHalfShell
I like to think that 185 millions years from now, when a civilization of octopuses rise, they'll use our human remnants as fuel for their vehicles.
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@benroyce @nikatjef @dnkboston @GhostOnTheHalfShell
I like to think that 185 millions years from now, when a civilization of octopuses rise, they'll use our human remnants as fuel for their vehicles.
@FrancoisPrague @nikatjef @dnkboston @GhostOnTheHalfShell
thank you, sincerely, for the laugh
endless dreary nihilism and whiny toxic perfectionism from pinheads is a drag
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@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva there is also the consideration wrt the effects of vehicle exhaust. Unless the power plants are coal, that's a straight up win for the carbon cycle.
Of course the batteries have rare chemicals and extractive companies still come into play. But they are there for vehicles regardless.
@draNgNon @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva Also, EV batteries degrade far less than predicted, and have a valuable ‘second life’ as battery storage for a grid powered by renewables… and when they’re finally used up, they are up to 96% recyclable…. Reducing the need for more extraction.
You cannot re-burn gasoline or diesel.
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@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
unread
uninterested
another whiny toxic idealist
fighting the real left in service of the fossil fuel industry
and too fucking stupid to see it
stop following me and fuck you, you pathetic loser
@benroyce might I suggest they may have a point there?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240326-how-hydroelectric-dams-are-a-hidden-source-of-carbon-emissions
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva -
@benroyce might I suggest they may have a point there?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240326-how-hydroelectric-dams-are-a-hidden-source-of-carbon-emissions
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva@punissuer @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
i don't deny that point in the least
what i deny is this "well it's better, but it's not perfect, so let's just sit around and whine about being perfect, and thereby only help the status quo of terrible"
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@ArchaeoIain @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva What the fuck are you talking about!?
You think we can population control ourselves back to a few hundred million people - and do you think handing out condoms will make it happen fast enough to be ANY help at all in the fight for a better environment on Earth?
@jwcph @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva That is not what I said. It is the logic of your statement though. It is clear that government policies or even evil religions which encourage population growth and ban contraception are aiming in the opposite direction partly because the dominant economic models are derived from agrarian societies where more people could produce more so growth arose from growing population. Simple really.
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@kottke/116013120934445460
CONTEXT
the Government Pension Fund of Norway is the largest sovereign-wealth fund in the planet; investing over a real, EU trillion in businesses worldwide.
where did they get the money to start the fund? FROM SURPLUS PETROLEUM & FOSSIL FUEL REVENUES. Norway nationalized key sectors of their economy, starting with oil & gas.
so the Norwegian government uses oil & gas money to rid the country of #petromafia #consumerism thru investments not taxes.
take that, neoliberal capitalists.
@blogdiva Canada had an oil boom at the same time and all the funds raise were wasted by giving it to oil & gas companies
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@ArchaeoIain @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva What the fuck are you talking about!?
You think we can population control ourselves back to a few hundred million people - and do you think handing out condoms will make it happen fast enough to be ANY help at all in the fight for a better environment on Earth?
@jwcph @benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva and unlike you I am not envisaging people dying, just not being born
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@tuban_muzuru @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
right so we get our energy from the sun rather than digging it up. vast improvement
@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
Global warming melted the glaciers and snowmass which filled Lake Mead. They'll never let it disappear completely, but hydro power will soon be gone
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Yes, but the point of the Oak Ridge demonstration was a nuclear fuel cycle that ran "forever." Not trying to divert this wonderful discussion, just noting that 'nuclear' can be 'renewable'
. I too rage against folks who just want to go back to living in caves with 99% of the current population gone. @ChuckMcManis @paneerakbari @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva
while i generally like breeder reactors you have to admit the teensy tiny problem that this is how we make plutonium for bombs
this is why breeder reactors are downplayed
otherwise i agree
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@anthropy @GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva I've been ruminating as of late on how close Malthusian nihilism is to racism. This is not to cast aspersions or make accusations regarding thread participants; it's just a thought.
Malthusian math (which is disproven, or at least, claims to prove more than it can because several of its assumptions were upended by new technological breakthroughs) indicates some people have to die or the entire population dies.
But then you're left with the problem that nobody wants to die, and racism steps in to provide a framework that lets people rank the quality of other human beings to let them square that cognitive dissonance off.
It may be an interesting dynamic, but I haven't done nearly enough thinking or research on the subject to endorse it as anything more than a thought.
malthusianism is eugenics which is always founded on racism.
if you agree with anything malthusian, i would suggest going into cult deprogramming therapy.
malthusianism ―like eugenics, like racism, like capitalism― is a death cult.
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@benroyce @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva No argument there; my only quibble was the "get everyone an EV" bit. We can do even better at the same time is all I'm saying.
@brad @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
but never in a million years did i make this
"get everyone an EV"
argument
replace all ICE with EV
*and* reduce cars in general
this is the ideal argument
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@punissuer @GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva
i don't deny that point in the least
what i deny is this "well it's better, but it's not perfect, so let's just sit around and whine about being perfect, and thereby only help the status quo of terrible"
@benroyce I don't know about you, but to me, this was new information. If that 2,200g CO2e/kWh is correct – which I don't know yet – and my math checks out, then a BEV powered by hydroelectric energy really isn't better than a smaller ICE car at all.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @blogdiva -
@GhostOnTheHalfShell @benroyce @blogdiva It's insane how impossible it is to explain to these people that they will have to give up some of their conveniences if they actually want to solve climate change. You just told them to take the bus and they will hate you forever. They only know how to consume, they believe the only solution to their problems is economic growth and this planet is doomed.
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@adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva
the arguments of toxic perfectionists like GhostOnTheHalfShell are not just foolishness in isolation
the real problem is how like here they go after EVs
they have to attack *better* because it's not *perfect*
!?
you see this constantly all over the left
these people are rat poison
in pursuit of purity, they fight better
thereby helping the status quo: the fossil fuel industry
they are an agent provocateur shill or a moron
@benroyce @adriano @GhostOnTheHalfShell @anthropy @blogdiva I think this thread shows that Earth's destruction is a touchy subject. I wish everyone could get along and share the land, but it's not profitable nor convenient. Creating a digital world for everyone to live in, on top of the one they already shit on, certainly isn't good for the planet, convince me otherwise. With so much of what we can't now live without, being something we never needed in the first place, progress seems more like a bait and switch tactic to move the herd than a promise of a bright future. I'll support whatever initiative buys the planet more inhabitable time.
