No, in case you wonder, we haven't changed our minds.
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@benroyce @H0W25 @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi
Proposing new features or refinements is another way to contribute to a project. Criticism is too, if it is made in a constructive way. Telling someone always that he is perfect and should never change can be terribly damaging in the long run, since it leads to self-complacency, stagnation and even narcissism. Software projects usually have more features to implement and bugs to resolve than resources to do it; but knowing what users demand is always useful.
The toxic criticism is when somebody throws a "Your browser is shit!" or "XYZ is much better!" with no explanation.
He may have started with a 'I love Vivaldi', it would have been nicer, but I think it was implicit somewhat. The irony here is that you have been far more harsher with him than he was in his first comment.
Anyway, I agree that it would be much better if Vivaldi were to have a homemade first class engine, but I'm not sure if the company has enough resources to do that. Pretty sure they would love to. In any case, it would take a long time to do that. About other engines, the only other mature options are Safari and Firefox engines. I don't think depending on Apple would be much better, and the fact is nearly everybody who makes a new browser chooses to use Chrome engine; I'm not sure why, I suspect Firefox's is not nearly as easy to reuse, but I'm only guessing.
@jgg @H0W25 @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi
Well said
I would merely reply that the "no Chromium" in demanding terms without any appreciation is under every post Vivaldi makes
other large accounts also get these sort of endless pointless unhelpful pefectionist criticism without consideration
it's mindless and you're certainly welcome to consider my comment as unnecessary but i will merely say i'm on a trip about it becaise i'm sick of it
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@Catweazle @Skwerlgyrl @Petesmom @Vivaldi @Mojeek @kagihq
FYI: With Kagi you can pay with bitcoins, and registration doesn't require personal information.
NB: Andi uses AI (...)
@marc_eu @Skwerlgyrl @Petesmom @Vivaldi @Mojeek @kagihq
yes, was the first search assistant ever >4 years ago, former LazyWeb, I use it since than, before the AI hype.
Independent AI for semantic search, by a small startup of two devs, Jed White and Angie Hoover, more reliable as any other (independent tests) as what it is, apart of an active privacy protection (random proxy, sandboxed results, own reader mode, watching YT videos in the search result), no logs, no tracking, no ads or SEO crap, anonymous and free. It's way different from any other.
Instead of halucinations if it don't find the answer, it offers a traditional websearch.For the search of concepts and clear questions is way better as normal search engines, which only search expresions, means, showing 50000 pages which have nothing to do with your question.
Andi gives clear answers, contrastet with sources of several pages.
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@ArtHarg @Vivaldi You see there is no real specialist. AI's training data is from sloppy humans. AI exposes the sloppiness and ignorance of humans. I am talking about specialists like Einstein and Maxwell. Their models are naive and are taught wrong at school. You don't need to be a specialist to understand what is wrong with these specialists. You only need a good brain even if you have very bad memories like myself. The age of ignorance is over. There is no more barrier to entry in anything.
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Startpage was my choice and it works great with Vivaldi 8.0.
@Skwerlgyrl @Catweazle @Petesmom @Vivaldi Startpage is owned by an American advertising company, System1, for what it's worth.
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@Skwerlgyrl @Catweazle @Petesmom @Vivaldi Startpage is owned by an American advertising company, System1, for what it's worth.
@matt @Skwerlgyrl @Petesmom @Vivaldi I know that System1 Startpage owned, but there isn't any data which Startpage send to it, nor to any other third party
Here you can read the whole story
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i understand their whole BAT "basic attention token" model
you're downloading an entire catalog of ads and then being matched to ads locally, so i admit the privacy aspect
but it's still rather smarmy no? you get little tokens for viewing ads? yuck
i would like to offer an even better model to you:
no ads. block 'em
and crypto money schemes are looking quite tattered and decrepit nowadays, the whole sector is a dead end
it seems to be a late 2010s fad that is fading
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i understand their whole BAT "basic attention token" model
you're downloading an entire catalog of ads and then being matched to ads locally, so i admit the privacy aspect
but it's still rather smarmy no? you get little tokens for viewing ads? yuck
i would like to offer an even better model to you:
no ads. block 'em
and crypto money schemes are looking quite tattered and decrepit nowadays, the whole sector is a dead end
it seems to be a late 2010s fad that is fading
@benroyce @Vivaldi ya the bat price has fallen to the point it's basically worthless but it keeps the lights on, theyre one source, they use the mozilla license, and now on Linux they have a brave origin browser that has none of that unwanted bloat built in. I don't like the web browser situation but Vivaldi has always been one of my least favorites because it's proprietary and has a lot of bugs, and they're monetized by google
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@benroyce @Vivaldi ya the bat price has fallen to the point it's basically worthless but it keeps the lights on, theyre one source, they use the mozilla license, and now on Linux they have a brave origin browser that has none of that unwanted bloat built in. I don't like the web browser situation but Vivaldi has always been one of my least favorites because it's proprietary and has a lot of bugs, and they're monetized by google
as long as you realize all these crypto scheme models are going bye bye. it's antiquated already. the world is moving past crypto (thank god)
and vivaldi is not "monetized by google"
that's a lie
vivaldi does search engine partners and bookmark partners
vivaldi does not sell user data, build profiling algorithms, or accept monetization from Google
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as long as you realize all these crypto scheme models are going bye bye. it's antiquated already. the world is moving past crypto (thank god)
and vivaldi is not "monetized by google"
that's a lie
vivaldi does search engine partners and bookmark partners
vivaldi does not sell user data, build profiling algorithms, or accept monetization from Google
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vivaldi's default search engine is Startpage
look, you can like brave and dislike vivaldi, that's your prerogative
but this is the second comment in which the basis for your preference is not based on the actual facts
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vivaldi's default search engine is Startpage
look, you can like brave and dislike vivaldi, that's your prerogative
but this is the second comment in which the basis for your preference is not based on the actual facts
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@ArtHarg @Vivaldi I don't think you see what LLM really is. One way or another, I created a browser dashboard with over 20 apps which is like old school IGoogle using Claude 4 in less than a month. I am creating an AI centric bowser app cluster this year using Copilot. I am not bound by any browser whether there is or is no AI on it. You see, I belong to the internet culture of the 90s who believe in freedom and free stuff. And when I say Einstein and Maxwell are naive, I mean it.
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Duckduckgo results, according to Wikipedia, come from a diversity of sources, including Google and Bing, so they are not really independent, and as Google is removing real search results, with Bing very likely doing the same, they may be doing the same soon.
They made recently a poll about AI, with 90% of people refusing it; their answer was creating the noai version. That reveals a strong pro-ai bias, since the right thing would have been refusing to use AI at all, or creating a ai.duckduckgo.com and leaving the main domain AI free.
@jgg @IntangibleSloth @Vivaldi THIS.
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I'm surprised they haven't changed their stance in the five years since they posted that article. My position stands: I must distrust Vivaldi and ask everyone to use another browser, like Waterfox or Zen.
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AFAIK, Startpage results are taken from Google's engine, so it is not really independent.
Now that Google is ditching search results, I wonder what is Startpage going to do. Probably the same.
My early understanding was also Google, but that my IP is not revealed to them. Not sure what engine they use now, I could not find out via the Privacy link at the bottom of their home page. Using their "Anonymous View" link in search results is supposed to be fully private.
Anyway, by using Firefox, Startpage, uBlock Origin, Privacy badger, and the included Startpage Privacy Protection, I very, very rarely see any ads.
The "About" link in the home page hamburger also has good info. -
@bms48 @Vivaldi @Zitron yes I haven't used it for years but as an educator we're still catching up with supporting students around the AI summary and the recently announced change has huge ramifications for school students and everyday people who need more support and awareness if they're going to change browser.
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No, in case you wonder, we haven't changed our minds.
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@benroyce @petrichaos @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi Such flawed attempts at dialectic on social media result only in the burden-of-argument tennis; see Schopenhauer. https://burdentennis.com/ PS <30 days to real actual Wimbledon with yellow balls.
@bms48 @benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi Off thread topic, but referencing the above link, I agree on most points ; notably the not-really intelligent AI - LLM is explicit imo: advanced code that can easily eat LARGE inputs then puke less output while requiring massive compute capacity
The more you scale, the less LLMs are relevant. Exponentialy inflating token consumption as context grows:
https://thenextweb.com/news/microsoft-claude-code-retreat-ai-costBut yeah one day, it would be faithful to the "AI" terminology
