Over the weekend, 17,000 people canceled their #WorldCup tickets
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@admin @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox
fine
tell me how
and whatever you come up with, voting is just another tool to get that done
so we'll do what you say *and* vote
a vote isn't magic unicorns and rainbows
nobody said that so you don't have to counter that impression because no one serious believes that
it's just a tool, amongst a whole repertoire of tools, in a larger struggle
that's it
and use all your tools
@benroyce @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox Minneapolis is currently showing us how. Follow their lead. General strike starts in a few days.
Yes, voting is a tool. One of many. And not one we have the luxury of focusing on right now. We can worry about that in a few months once we've managed to turn things around a bit. If we can't do that then it's not gonna matter.
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So, you're saying that I shouldn't vote MY conscience, I shouldn't vote for the candidate that I believe will do the best job in office, simply so that you get your way in the election?
Essentially, you're asking me to vote the way you dictate, instead of the way I feel. Therein lies the fallacy.
The idea that my third party vote "divides" one side or the other is fallacious. My vote was never with your candidate, or the candidate you hate in the first place. Noting gets divided.
the problem is in fptp you can't vote your conscience, you also have to use strategy
it isn't about what i want
if you're playing a game of chess, do you imagine you have 5 queen pieces on the board? no. it doesn't work that way
same with voting 3rd party
it just divides the left and trump wins. you can't imagine it does anything else. it's just the way the voting system works
don't shoot the messenger
i'm not trying to convince you of my opinion, i'm describing reality to you
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i don't think canadians are ceasing to come because i got on social media and said the usa sucks
i do think canadians are ceasing to come because an orange turd got on social media and threatened to annex them
the question is why the orange turd can do that
and the answer is because enough couldn't be bothered to vote, and enough are ignorants who love bigotry, that he is in power
it's not anything we control anymore
we had control, and we blew it
we better vote next time
So stipulated. What happened to the Rule of Law? The sniggering of SCOTUS, allowing Trump to issue sweeping pardons for Jan 5 - surrounded by rogues and the ghost of Epstein.
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@pascaline @benroyce I struggle to sew now because it was so gendered in school. I'd rather they taught ALL of us to knit and sew....but we did a little sampler work once but it wasm't a thing.
Also being 'knot blind' doesn't help. It's not exactly dyspraxia but something like that, I can't tie knots at all, ties are a problem.
Yes, much better to teach all children the same, we need so many skills and it's fun to learn, and to discover what we like. To be able to choose from 'it all' would be great.
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@dnkboston @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox
unfortunately, there is a lot of weak will and mindless cynicism out there
these people don't seem to understand that their own attitude is willing submission to fascism
or they are troll psyop to suppress the left vote with learned helplessness
i can never tell
@benroyce @dnkboston @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox A a lot of self-serving STUPID out there. “I didn’t vote for the Democrat because he gave too much stuff away to unworthy people. So in response, I’ll vote for the fascist white guy who will give me stuff, never mind that I’ll lose my civil rights in the process, because I’m unfamiliar with the concept of double edge swords.”
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right but we can still vote and elect dems to control congress and freeze his agenda
this whole sentiment "the usa is already nazi germany" is self-defeating: you want trump to lose, right? so why act like he already won everything? trump is not untouchable. why act like he is? do you want to help trump? i don't think so, but that's what your words are doing because you're presenting a fallacious rationale that voting doesn't matter anymore. it still matters
@benroyce And as a German, I would like to add: Even in Nazi Germany we had resisting people when Hitler was already in power. The fact that some assassination attempts unfortunately failed does not mean that they were not attempted. The fact that people hid those who were being persecuted at the risk of their own lives does not mean that they did not do so. But the fact that at some point the Nazis gained the upper hand and the majority and murdered people in the
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@dnkboston @benroyce @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox agreed. And it's been a media, or at least a good part of the media, that has been promoting the 'they're all the same so why bother' message for a long time now.
@capnthommo @dnkboston @benroyce @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox You must always question the motivation of equivalence arguments. Not saying you haven’t.
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the problem is in fptp you can't vote your conscience, you also have to use strategy
it isn't about what i want
if you're playing a game of chess, do you imagine you have 5 queen pieces on the board? no. it doesn't work that way
same with voting 3rd party
it just divides the left and trump wins. you can't imagine it does anything else. it's just the way the voting system works
don't shoot the messenger
i'm not trying to convince you of my opinion, i'm describing reality to you
That's the thing... I only need to use strategy in order to force my viewpoint and candidate on the rest of the country.
I'm not trying to be insulting, but thinking like that is religious in nature, or even cult-like. "Christians" wanting to force the rest of the world to live by their values, for exaample.. They use "strategy" in the same manner you propose in order to influence government.
The true solution is for individuals to vote for themselves-or we get where we're at now.
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@benroyce And as a German, I would like to add: Even in Nazi Germany we had resisting people when Hitler was already in power. The fact that some assassination attempts unfortunately failed does not mean that they were not attempted. The fact that people hid those who were being persecuted at the risk of their own lives does not mean that they did not do so. But the fact that at some point the Nazis gained the upper hand and the majority and murdered people in the
@benroyce resistance was partly due to the procrastinators, the silent ones, the do-nothings. The people who talked down the resistance or simply resigned themselves to the system.
A fascist system does not install solely because of ardent supporters. It also grows with the help of those who want to minimise resistance, who remain silent and look away.
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@benroyce @bazcook @lynfox @ikuturso
What everyone on our side REALLY needs to understand is that currently MAGA in most all forms and entities are pushing an effort TO NOT VOTE IN THE MIDTERMS and TO NOT PAY TAXES this year.
Not every single one of them but Id say we are down to a low 20% left of full on MAGA cultists at this time instead of the high thirties percent we were used to seeing.
And they arent voting to PROTEST.
They are not voting because they feel voting is RIGGED. In other words, they have given up on being able to be represented because even being represented by Trump is NOT GETTING THEM WHAT THEY WANT.Everyone HAS TO VOTE this time because THEY DO NOT PLAN ON VOTING.
If they get their wish and DONT VOTE and DONT PAY TAXES, not only will we smash them in the midterms, but they all will find themselves in court for tax fraud. Trump style winning for them all
WE
HAVE
TO
VOTE -
That's the thing... I only need to use strategy in order to force my viewpoint and candidate on the rest of the country.
I'm not trying to be insulting, but thinking like that is religious in nature, or even cult-like. "Christians" wanting to force the rest of the world to live by their values, for exaample.. They use "strategy" in the same manner you propose in order to influence government.
The true solution is for individuals to vote for themselves-or we get where we're at now.
you're acting like this is about opinions
this is about facts
in the fptp voting system, it is a fact it's a contest between only 2 parties. in this arrangement, 3rd parties can *only* siphon votes off from one of the 2 major parties and cause them to lose
that's it. there's no opinion. no religion. just mathematical fact
i asked you before: are you familiar with the idea of someone who has good intentions, but because they don't understand something, they only wind up causing harm?
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the usa is an fptp voting system
there can only ever be 2 parties. it's not corruption (corruption exists, but it's not the reason). it's just math:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law
to get viable 3rd parties we need a new voting system, like ranked choice. then you can vote your conscience free and clear and not worry about dreary strategy
ranked choice is creeping in in places
but if you vote 3rd party *before* we get that you divide the left vote and help MAGA win
you can't vote 3rd party
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I don't agree on the necessity of Ranked Choice.
In the Presidential elections, the candidates with the most electoral votes wins.
It doesn't matter if there are 2 or 20 parties.
The system was set up before the "two parties" even existed. The first few elections were party-free; candidates published what they stood for, and people voted based on their wishes.
If you vote third party, it's because you don't agree with the left or the right, or their candidates, and that's all.
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Im doing it to, but solo. That's why I landed on Mastodon.
Is there any page or source link of this campaign?@Loksodroma @benroyce The danish camping have a home at:
https://danmarkskifter.dk/en/ -
If that's the case, then voting third party would have no effect on the other two parties.
I've been told that my vote for a third party helped Harris in the last election... I've been told that my third party vote helped Trump in the last election.
Both can't be true.. and if they are, then I need to be arrested and jailed for voter fraud, because that means I voted three times with one vote.
Third party voters are voting their conscience, as they should, and divides nothing. -c-
@admin @benroyce Apparently you don’t understand how ranked choice voting works. For example, in your state, there are three candidates to choose for president. Your first choice is A, second choice is B. If your A choice fails to gather enough votes to win, then your vote would shift to B. This allows people to vote for who they want and not worry about spoilers, because if your guy/gal doesn’t make it, then your vote is not wasted. Not complicated.
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@admin @benroyce Apparently you don’t understand how ranked choice voting works. For example, in your state, there are three candidates to choose for president. Your first choice is A, second choice is B. If your A choice fails to gather enough votes to win, then your vote would shift to B. This allows people to vote for who they want and not worry about spoilers, because if your guy/gal doesn’t make it, then your vote is not wasted. Not complicated.
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So, you're saying that I shouldn't vote MY conscience, I shouldn't vote for the candidate that I believe will do the best job in office, simply so that you get your way in the election?
Essentially, you're asking me to vote the way you dictate, instead of the way I feel. Therein lies the fallacy.
The idea that my third party vote "divides" one side or the other is fallacious. My vote was never with your candidate, or the candidate you hate in the first place. Noting gets divided.
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@benroyce @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox Minneapolis is currently showing us how. Follow their lead. General strike starts in a few days.
Yes, voting is a tool. One of many. And not one we have the luxury of focusing on right now. We can worry about that in a few months once we've managed to turn things around a bit. If we can't do that then it's not gonna matter.
@admin In general, it is not productive to engage Ben Royce in this manner. Whatever he's saying that you disagree with, just subtoot it. He has a /modus votus/, and no matter how reasonable and appropriate your proposal, if it is not "vote for Democrats" in its entirety, you are undermining the message.
I, for one, think mobbing/swarming tactics, closing schools, and general strikes are entirely warranted. I also think retaliatory violence is okay. They need to be *afraid* to abduct.
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Right
@ admin doesn't seem to understand there are mathematical rules here and is acting like we're forcing our opinions on them
but what's happening is the us voting system is blackjack and they are trying to play poker
If we change the game, and go to ranked choice voting (poker), everything they say makes perfect sense
But unfortunately we're stuck at the blackjack table until we vote in those people who will change our voting system
And it is creeping in in the usa
