Over the weekend, 17,000 people canceled their #WorldCup tickets
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@dnkboston @benroyce @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox agreed. And it's been a media, or at least a good part of the media, that has been promoting the 'they're all the same so why bother' message for a long time now.
@capnthommo @dnkboston @benroyce @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox You must always question the motivation of equivalence arguments. Not saying you haven’t.
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the problem is in fptp you can't vote your conscience, you also have to use strategy
it isn't about what i want
if you're playing a game of chess, do you imagine you have 5 queen pieces on the board? no. it doesn't work that way
same with voting 3rd party
it just divides the left and trump wins. you can't imagine it does anything else. it's just the way the voting system works
don't shoot the messenger
i'm not trying to convince you of my opinion, i'm describing reality to you
That's the thing... I only need to use strategy in order to force my viewpoint and candidate on the rest of the country.
I'm not trying to be insulting, but thinking like that is religious in nature, or even cult-like. "Christians" wanting to force the rest of the world to live by their values, for exaample.. They use "strategy" in the same manner you propose in order to influence government.
The true solution is for individuals to vote for themselves-or we get where we're at now.
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@benroyce And as a German, I would like to add: Even in Nazi Germany we had resisting people when Hitler was already in power. The fact that some assassination attempts unfortunately failed does not mean that they were not attempted. The fact that people hid those who were being persecuted at the risk of their own lives does not mean that they did not do so. But the fact that at some point the Nazis gained the upper hand and the majority and murdered people in the
@benroyce resistance was partly due to the procrastinators, the silent ones, the do-nothings. The people who talked down the resistance or simply resigned themselves to the system.
A fascist system does not install solely because of ardent supporters. It also grows with the help of those who want to minimise resistance, who remain silent and look away.
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@benroyce @bazcook @lynfox @ikuturso
What everyone on our side REALLY needs to understand is that currently MAGA in most all forms and entities are pushing an effort TO NOT VOTE IN THE MIDTERMS and TO NOT PAY TAXES this year.
Not every single one of them but Id say we are down to a low 20% left of full on MAGA cultists at this time instead of the high thirties percent we were used to seeing.
And they arent voting to PROTEST.
They are not voting because they feel voting is RIGGED. In other words, they have given up on being able to be represented because even being represented by Trump is NOT GETTING THEM WHAT THEY WANT.Everyone HAS TO VOTE this time because THEY DO NOT PLAN ON VOTING.
If they get their wish and DONT VOTE and DONT PAY TAXES, not only will we smash them in the midterms, but they all will find themselves in court for tax fraud. Trump style winning for them all
WE
HAVE
TO
VOTE -
That's the thing... I only need to use strategy in order to force my viewpoint and candidate on the rest of the country.
I'm not trying to be insulting, but thinking like that is religious in nature, or even cult-like. "Christians" wanting to force the rest of the world to live by their values, for exaample.. They use "strategy" in the same manner you propose in order to influence government.
The true solution is for individuals to vote for themselves-or we get where we're at now.
you're acting like this is about opinions
this is about facts
in the fptp voting system, it is a fact it's a contest between only 2 parties. in this arrangement, 3rd parties can *only* siphon votes off from one of the 2 major parties and cause them to lose
that's it. there's no opinion. no religion. just mathematical fact
i asked you before: are you familiar with the idea of someone who has good intentions, but because they don't understand something, they only wind up causing harm?
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the usa is an fptp voting system
there can only ever be 2 parties. it's not corruption (corruption exists, but it's not the reason). it's just math:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law
to get viable 3rd parties we need a new voting system, like ranked choice. then you can vote your conscience free and clear and not worry about dreary strategy
ranked choice is creeping in in places
but if you vote 3rd party *before* we get that you divide the left vote and help MAGA win
you can't vote 3rd party
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I don't agree on the necessity of Ranked Choice.
In the Presidential elections, the candidates with the most electoral votes wins.
It doesn't matter if there are 2 or 20 parties.
The system was set up before the "two parties" even existed. The first few elections were party-free; candidates published what they stood for, and people voted based on their wishes.
If you vote third party, it's because you don't agree with the left or the right, or their candidates, and that's all.
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Im doing it to, but solo. That's why I landed on Mastodon.
Is there any page or source link of this campaign?@Loksodroma @benroyce The danish camping have a home at:
https://danmarkskifter.dk/en/ -
If that's the case, then voting third party would have no effect on the other two parties.
I've been told that my vote for a third party helped Harris in the last election... I've been told that my third party vote helped Trump in the last election.
Both can't be true.. and if they are, then I need to be arrested and jailed for voter fraud, because that means I voted three times with one vote.
Third party voters are voting their conscience, as they should, and divides nothing. -c-
@admin @benroyce Apparently you don’t understand how ranked choice voting works. For example, in your state, there are three candidates to choose for president. Your first choice is A, second choice is B. If your A choice fails to gather enough votes to win, then your vote would shift to B. This allows people to vote for who they want and not worry about spoilers, because if your guy/gal doesn’t make it, then your vote is not wasted. Not complicated.
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@admin @benroyce Apparently you don’t understand how ranked choice voting works. For example, in your state, there are three candidates to choose for president. Your first choice is A, second choice is B. If your A choice fails to gather enough votes to win, then your vote would shift to B. This allows people to vote for who they want and not worry about spoilers, because if your guy/gal doesn’t make it, then your vote is not wasted. Not complicated.
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So, you're saying that I shouldn't vote MY conscience, I shouldn't vote for the candidate that I believe will do the best job in office, simply so that you get your way in the election?
Essentially, you're asking me to vote the way you dictate, instead of the way I feel. Therein lies the fallacy.
The idea that my third party vote "divides" one side or the other is fallacious. My vote was never with your candidate, or the candidate you hate in the first place. Noting gets divided.
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@benroyce @PaulaToThePeople @bazcook @ikuturso @lynfox Minneapolis is currently showing us how. Follow their lead. General strike starts in a few days.
Yes, voting is a tool. One of many. And not one we have the luxury of focusing on right now. We can worry about that in a few months once we've managed to turn things around a bit. If we can't do that then it's not gonna matter.
@admin In general, it is not productive to engage Ben Royce in this manner. Whatever he's saying that you disagree with, just subtoot it. He has a /modus votus/, and no matter how reasonable and appropriate your proposal, if it is not "vote for Democrats" in its entirety, you are undermining the message.
I, for one, think mobbing/swarming tactics, closing schools, and general strikes are entirely warranted. I also think retaliatory violence is okay. They need to be *afraid* to abduct.
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Right
@ admin doesn't seem to understand there are mathematical rules here and is acting like we're forcing our opinions on them
but what's happening is the us voting system is blackjack and they are trying to play poker
If we change the game, and go to ranked choice voting (poker), everything they say makes perfect sense
But unfortunately we're stuck at the blackjack table until we vote in those people who will change our voting system
And it is creeping in in the usa
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yup
nonvoters and MAGA are the same in the respect that they are reduced to emotional states and then manipulated when in that state to achieve a voting effect
the effect sought with MAGA is to rile them up and get them to the voting booth
the effect sought with nonvoters is to depress them and make them feel powerless, and suppress the left vote
toxic idealism, mindless cynicism, alienation, learned helplessness, etc:
fodder for the troll psyop
I was at a "No Kings" rally here in the Bangor, Maine local last summer.
The phrase "Genocide Joe" came up with one of the speakers. Not one single mention of the name Kamala Harris was spoken.
Don't get me wrong, Bernie Sanders has articulated the many problems we face. But unfortunately the 'Bernie Bros' think to fix inequality, demands Anarchy - "Burning It All Down!"
Those purist, single issue, Uncommitted, swallowed the propaganda, stayed home & gave us tRUMP.
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Over the weekend, 17,000 people canceled their #WorldCup tickets
#FIFA is holding an emergency meeting
Maybe they will give Agent Orange another pretty trophy? Maybe bigger, more gold... really sparkly? Will that fix the problem? (/s)
As an American: don't come here
Don't do business with the #USA
Until we clean this shit up. Mainly: we #vote #primaries #primaries2026 and get some real left candidates
https://www.ticketnews.com/2026/01/nearly-17000-fans-cancel-2026-world-cup-tickets-amid-boycott/
@benroyce
Waiting for the asshole to swallow himself is a losing strategy. We need more people in the streets. Every time I go to a protest march and I could be wrong but I see mostly grey hairs. There's just not enough involvement from the general public. I recall going to Vietnam anti war protests when I was in high school. It might be difficult to get the youth to put down their phones, but I think engaging the youth could be helpful.
We also need to use tools like cyber and economic -
@admin @benroyce Apparently you don’t understand how ranked choice voting works. For example, in your state, there are three candidates to choose for president. Your first choice is A, second choice is B. If your A choice fails to gather enough votes to win, then your vote would shift to B. This allows people to vote for who they want and not worry about spoilers, because if your guy/gal doesn’t make it, then your vote is not wasted. Not complicated.
Actually, I do...
Ranked Choice means that if the candidate I do like doesn't get enough votes, then the candidates I don't like can "steal" my vote.
Now, tell me, why would I want a candidate that I don't want in office (which describes the last 8 elections - or more - in the US for me) to be able to count my vote for them, rather than for the candidate for which I wish to vote?
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@tuban_muzuru @benroyce This (don’t come to America) is a cause and effect argument. Unfortunately an element of this strategy is logic. Some of us can only learn when we see the negative results of our actions, and unfortunately we all, good and bad will suffer, but it’s the only real way to fix this. The world must treat the US as pariahs for us to collectively get the message. Some good people will unfortunately suffer more than they deserve.
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Over the weekend, 17,000 people canceled their #WorldCup tickets
#FIFA is holding an emergency meeting
Maybe they will give Agent Orange another pretty trophy? Maybe bigger, more gold... really sparkly? Will that fix the problem? (/s)
As an American: don't come here
Don't do business with the #USA
Until we clean this shit up. Mainly: we #vote #primaries #primaries2026 and get some real left candidates
https://www.ticketnews.com/2026/01/nearly-17000-fans-cancel-2026-world-cup-tickets-amid-boycott/
@benroyce Remember to boycott any livestreams of the FIFA World Cup, as well as any other branches of FIFA, like their games division.
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Because the founders of the country weren't mathematicians. So the system is broken. And you are choosing to not understand how it is broken. We're asking you to understand the math. Did you watch the video link I sent you? It's quite good. You will understand the reality you are stuck in (again, it has nothing to do with opinions or religion, just mathematical facts)
