No, in case you wonder, we haven't changed our minds.
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Startpage was my choice and it works great with Vivaldi 8.0.
@Skwerlgyrl @Catweazle @Petesmom @Vivaldi Startpage is owned by an American advertising company, System1, for what it's worth.
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@Skwerlgyrl @Catweazle @Petesmom @Vivaldi Startpage is owned by an American advertising company, System1, for what it's worth.
@matt @Skwerlgyrl @Petesmom @Vivaldi I know that System1 Startpage owned, but there isn't any data which Startpage send to it, nor to any other third party
Here you can read the whole story
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i understand their whole BAT "basic attention token" model
you're downloading an entire catalog of ads and then being matched to ads locally, so i admit the privacy aspect
but it's still rather smarmy no? you get little tokens for viewing ads? yuck
i would like to offer an even better model to you:
no ads. block 'em
and crypto money schemes are looking quite tattered and decrepit nowadays, the whole sector is a dead end
it seems to be a late 2010s fad that is fading
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i understand their whole BAT "basic attention token" model
you're downloading an entire catalog of ads and then being matched to ads locally, so i admit the privacy aspect
but it's still rather smarmy no? you get little tokens for viewing ads? yuck
i would like to offer an even better model to you:
no ads. block 'em
and crypto money schemes are looking quite tattered and decrepit nowadays, the whole sector is a dead end
it seems to be a late 2010s fad that is fading
@benroyce @Vivaldi ya the bat price has fallen to the point it's basically worthless but it keeps the lights on, theyre one source, they use the mozilla license, and now on Linux they have a brave origin browser that has none of that unwanted bloat built in. I don't like the web browser situation but Vivaldi has always been one of my least favorites because it's proprietary and has a lot of bugs, and they're monetized by google
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@benroyce @Vivaldi ya the bat price has fallen to the point it's basically worthless but it keeps the lights on, theyre one source, they use the mozilla license, and now on Linux they have a brave origin browser that has none of that unwanted bloat built in. I don't like the web browser situation but Vivaldi has always been one of my least favorites because it's proprietary and has a lot of bugs, and they're monetized by google
as long as you realize all these crypto scheme models are going bye bye. it's antiquated already. the world is moving past crypto (thank god)
and vivaldi is not "monetized by google"
that's a lie
vivaldi does search engine partners and bookmark partners
vivaldi does not sell user data, build profiling algorithms, or accept monetization from Google
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as long as you realize all these crypto scheme models are going bye bye. it's antiquated already. the world is moving past crypto (thank god)
and vivaldi is not "monetized by google"
that's a lie
vivaldi does search engine partners and bookmark partners
vivaldi does not sell user data, build profiling algorithms, or accept monetization from Google
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vivaldi's default search engine is Startpage
look, you can like brave and dislike vivaldi, that's your prerogative
but this is the second comment in which the basis for your preference is not based on the actual facts
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vivaldi's default search engine is Startpage
look, you can like brave and dislike vivaldi, that's your prerogative
but this is the second comment in which the basis for your preference is not based on the actual facts
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@ArtHarg @Vivaldi I don't think you see what LLM really is. One way or another, I created a browser dashboard with over 20 apps which is like old school IGoogle using Claude 4 in less than a month. I am creating an AI centric bowser app cluster this year using Copilot. I am not bound by any browser whether there is or is no AI on it. You see, I belong to the internet culture of the 90s who believe in freedom and free stuff. And when I say Einstein and Maxwell are naive, I mean it.
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Duckduckgo results, according to Wikipedia, come from a diversity of sources, including Google and Bing, so they are not really independent, and as Google is removing real search results, with Bing very likely doing the same, they may be doing the same soon.
They made recently a poll about AI, with 90% of people refusing it; their answer was creating the noai version. That reveals a strong pro-ai bias, since the right thing would have been refusing to use AI at all, or creating a ai.duckduckgo.com and leaving the main domain AI free.
@jgg @IntangibleSloth @Vivaldi THIS.
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I'm surprised they haven't changed their stance in the five years since they posted that article. My position stands: I must distrust Vivaldi and ask everyone to use another browser, like Waterfox or Zen.
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AFAIK, Startpage results are taken from Google's engine, so it is not really independent.
Now that Google is ditching search results, I wonder what is Startpage going to do. Probably the same.
My early understanding was also Google, but that my IP is not revealed to them. Not sure what engine they use now, I could not find out via the Privacy link at the bottom of their home page. Using their "Anonymous View" link in search results is supposed to be fully private.
Anyway, by using Firefox, Startpage, uBlock Origin, Privacy badger, and the included Startpage Privacy Protection, I very, very rarely see any ads.
The "About" link in the home page hamburger also has good info. -
@bms48 @Vivaldi @Zitron yes I haven't used it for years but as an educator we're still catching up with supporting students around the AI summary and the recently announced change has huge ramifications for school students and everyday people who need more support and awareness if they're going to change browser.
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No, in case you wonder, we haven't changed our minds.
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@benroyce @petrichaos @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi Such flawed attempts at dialectic on social media result only in the burden-of-argument tennis; see Schopenhauer. https://burdentennis.com/ PS <30 days to real actual Wimbledon with yellow balls.
@bms48 @benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi Off thread topic, but referencing the above link, I agree on most points ; notably the not-really intelligent AI - LLM is explicit imo: advanced code that can easily eat LARGE inputs then puke less output while requiring massive compute capacity
The more you scale, the less LLMs are relevant. Exponentialy inflating token consumption as context grows:
https://thenextweb.com/news/microsoft-claude-code-retreat-ai-costBut yeah one day, it would be faithful to the "AI" terminology
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@petrichaos @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi
it infects social media
perfectionism, toxic idealism, purity
as an entitled basis to complain about every. goddamn. thing.
and always zero appreciation from these assholes shown, for the only thing we are ever going to get, from any entity in this world, on any topic:
progress
it's simply a basis for edgelord trolling on baseless malcontent
or it's a personality disorder: stunt vibing ego masturbation
it's a parasitical social interaction on us all
@benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi just ignore lol
The most pathetic are the ones requiring finished product but wouldn't contribute. "I'm not a coder" is not an excuse: join beta programs, support alpha builds, etc etc
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@petrichaos @benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi So the weaponization of the LLM as a geared DNN is very real and with us. They might not do so on particular use of human language. Chomsky pointed out that they fall down as they can't differentiate impossible languages; those humans would not acquire or understand ever, but this does not hold for opcode streams intended purely to bring software to its knees. There are defensive counters. I am actively researching specific applications of such.
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@petrichaos @benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi So the weaponization of the LLM as a geared DNN is very real and with us. They might not do so on particular use of human language. Chomsky pointed out that they fall down as they can't differentiate impossible languages; those humans would not acquire or understand ever, but this does not hold for opcode streams intended purely to bring software to its knees. There are defensive counters. I am actively researching specific applications of such.
@petrichaos @benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi It should go without saying that token economics will directly influence the outcome of what is essentially now a cybersecurity arms race. Both state and non state actors have keen interest in this. Genie cannot be put back in the bottle. Whether the effort to sloppify across the board were to succeed or not, there will still be the Gatling Gun of Exploitation -- for a price. I wonder what Dan Geer thinks of this, after "Cybersecurity as Realpolitik".
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@bms48 @benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi Off thread topic, but referencing the above link, I agree on most points ; notably the not-really intelligent AI - LLM is explicit imo: advanced code that can easily eat LARGE inputs then puke less output while requiring massive compute capacity
The more you scale, the less LLMs are relevant. Exponentialy inflating token consumption as context grows:
https://thenextweb.com/news/microsoft-claude-code-retreat-ai-costBut yeah one day, it would be faithful to the "AI" terminology
@petrichaos @benroyce @YurkshireLad @Vivaldi Thing is, LLMs are really really good at exploit writing to trigger CVEs in cybersecurity. That's the brute force search space exploration approach right there; Takanen et al covers the what and why of fuzzing, but not the how of what orgs like AISLE are doing. But it's very compute expensive and they still rely on breadth first search strategies optimized for deductive "inference" where that word is used with a very specific ML context.
