Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels.
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
@jon I mean, did they even think for a split second about how much nuclear, coal, gas etc kill tons of life?
What a clown show.It's the same reasoning as always:
An improvement that brings a dozen benefits comes with a teeny tiny cost, usually negligible, and then they're against it, given they got to enjoy a nice dinner.
Just like in the US and anywhere else.Offer swapping some airplanes that also endanger birds plus way more for some wind turbines.
Of course they won't accept it. -
@jon i hate that the bird argument is a real thing. it's such a good telling how deep we are standing in the crap
@nikolar Right. Exactly this. It’s so obviously stupid as an argument but here I am with university educated polite society and I’m confronted with it. As if it’s an acceptable argument!
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
@jon They did an experiment where they painted (one of?) the blades in black to make it more visible, which reduced the number of dead birds by 70%.
https://www.intelligentliving.co/norway-bird-deaths-black-turbine-blades/
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And there was another line. “It’s rich landowners in Brandenburg taking the subsidies from the state to build wind turbines”. This is an equality / distribution issue, not an energy issue! Think of the opposite: “we shouldn’t build turbines there because the land owners are rich!” Errrr… #StateOfEU
@jon I suggest building a nuclear power plant in his garden instead. To get closer to the people, you know.
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@jon What I always feel gets missed out on the subject of bird deaths is: nothing has a bigger overall, long-term impact on bird populations than habitat loss.
And what makes habitat loss a much, much more pressing concern? Climate change.
Over a longer period, turbines can save the lives of countless birds.
Why not all of the above?
Turbines *could* save the lives of countless birds, but only in a society that values non-human life the same as human life (or even just convenience).
So, in the mean time, we will kill birds by all available methods: by destroying their habitats with roads, pavements, expanding farm land, pesticides, electric transmission lines, and yes, even by owning cats.
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“And those turbines you see in Brandenburg approaching Berlin are so UGLY!” he went on. Climate change, that’s ugly. #StateOfEU
@jon they are talking about these wind turbines, right? RIGHT???
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
Yep, but that's the thing: many people, politicians and citizens alike, disagree with you on that point! That's democracy for you.
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon Every conspiracy theorist is somewhere on the vertical axis, moving upwards and adding more.
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
@jon respectfully, if we somehow resolve/address our climate change problem, but not our #racism problem, that's a fail. BOTH are peer priorities a la #ClimateJustice.
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon NdGT lays out the problem.
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon people will say anything for oil money.
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@jon What I always feel gets missed out on the subject of bird deaths is: nothing has a bigger overall, long-term impact on bird populations than habitat loss.
And what makes habitat loss a much, much more pressing concern? Climate change.
Over a longer period, turbines can save the lives of countless birds.
@RolloTreadway @jon just wait til people find out about the wildlife destruction caused by cars...
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“And those turbines you see in Brandenburg approaching Berlin are so UGLY!” he went on. Climate change, that’s ugly. #StateOfEU
@jon Living in Czech Republic I don't cease to be amazed by how brainwashed against wind turbines the people are here. Even biologists working with Ecology support this nonsense. Both this "ugly/changes the landscape" stuff, and the birds. What is worse is that here they're all in on nuclear, believe it's all they'll ever need. I think there is a point to be made that disabling already installed nuclear was a bad move in Germany, but building new will never be worth it compared to alternatives.
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
@jon That's a statement of personal values that is not universal. There are things more important than personal survival and there are things more important than cultural or even species survival. -
Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon Let me guess: Cherry picked examples of their "dangers" and for each of these scenarios they're not even in the top 50 of worst offenders.
- Dead birds? Guess we should ban outdoor cats.
- Microplastics? Let me tell you a story about tire and brake abrasions.
- Infrasound emissions? Again, have you heard about cars, heavy industry or data centers?!
- Space requirements? Again... Cars? -
“And those turbines you see in Brandenburg approaching Berlin are so UGLY!” he went on. Climate change, that’s ugly. #StateOfEU
@jon the turbines I see in Brandenburg when I come back to Berlin are awesome! That person is an idiot
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon That conspiracy theory was probably an American export...apologies
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon My analysis would suggest that trying to stuff all this cheap renewable wind power onto a JIT grid is a poor climate optimization strategy. All the wind datasets I’ve modelled exhibit unbridgeable seasonal supply deficits. There is a better way. Use wind to make green steel.
https://energyasicit.ca/EnergyVision/
https://energyasicit.ca/HomeEnergy/ -
And there was another line. “It’s rich landowners in Brandenburg taking the subsidies from the state to build wind turbines”. This is an equality / distribution issue, not an energy issue! Think of the opposite: “we shouldn’t build turbines there because the land owners are rich!” Errrr… #StateOfEU
@jon Also we know since the 1980s that the solution is to #tax rents/windfall profits. Not perfect, but better than other solutions.
Or in other words, «From an allocative efficiency perspective, the proposed cap is not strategically neutral to market participants, but clearly superior to alternative measures that affect price formation overall, such as subsidies to marginal technologies or the abandonment of uniform pricing.»
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/IPOL_STU(2023)740076 -
@nikolar Right. Exactly this. It’s so obviously stupid as an argument but here I am with university educated polite society and I’m confronted with it. As if it’s an acceptable argument!
