Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research.
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist fascinating! Can you share links where we can learn more about this?
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist and it will happen again
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@dnavinci
I have successfully travelled by land and sea to Kuopio and seen actual kalakukko being sold in the market square!!!@mrundkvist @dnavinci When I was an exchange student 37 years ago, I lived in (a place which after municipal amalgamation is now a part of) Kuopio. When I left, they gave me a big hunk of kalakukko to take on the night train down to Helsinki. It would never had occurred to me to bake whole fish into a loaf of bread before. Maybe my only good memory of that year.
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@mrundkvist @dnavinci When I was an exchange student 37 years ago, I lived in (a place which after municipal amalgamation is now a part of) Kuopio. When I left, they gave me a big hunk of kalakukko to take on the night train down to Helsinki. It would never had occurred to me to bake whole fish into a loaf of bread before. Maybe my only good memory of that year.
@wollman
I'm assuming that's Nilsiä?Something about that story worries me.
1. You were unhappy (that's obvious)
2. Taking food on the train, especially outside the dining car would be viewed as pretty rude.
Kalakukko seems like an odd parting gift because it's polarizing (like Mämmi) even to the locals.
Might have been a super polite way to be mean?Sorry for whatever happened.
@mrundkvist -
@wollman
I'm assuming that's Nilsiä?Something about that story worries me.
1. You were unhappy (that's obvious)
2. Taking food on the train, especially outside the dining car would be viewed as pretty rude.
Kalakukko seems like an odd parting gift because it's polarizing (like Mämmi) even to the locals.
Might have been a super polite way to be mean?Sorry for whatever happened.
@mrundkvist@dnavinci @mrundkvist Syvänniemi was the nearest village, at the time I believe it was part of the council of Karttula; I had to take a long rural bus trip every day to the lukio in Karttula. I lived with a childless couple in a pretty isolated house on the lake, a far cry from my first placement in Turku (one of the family members there took a disliking to me and had the agency move me). The couple both worked in Kuopio proper. The man was of Estonian ancestry.
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@dnavinci @mrundkvist Syvänniemi was the nearest village, at the time I believe it was part of the council of Karttula; I had to take a long rural bus trip every day to the lukio in Karttula. I lived with a childless couple in a pretty isolated house on the lake, a far cry from my first placement in Turku (one of the family members there took a disliking to me and had the agency move me). The couple both worked in Kuopio proper. The man was of Estonian ancestry.
@wollman
Okay, yeah, Kartula is basically republican Kuopio, so that makes sense
@mrundkvist -
@wollman
Okay, yeah, Kartula is basically republican Kuopio, so that makes sense
@mrundkvist@dnavinci When I went back to Finland in 2017 I took a day-trip to Turku. I did not (do not) feel the need to see Kuopio again. (I *am* going to Tampere next March for the figure skating, which at least I've never been to before so at least if it's a disappointment I can say I didn't know.)
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@dnavinci When I went back to Finland in 2017 I took a day-trip to Turku. I did not (do not) feel the need to see Kuopio again. (I *am* going to Tampere next March for the figure skating, which at least I've never been to before so at least if it's a disappointment I can say I didn't know.)
@wollman
To be honest, I have always really worried about exchanging students to rural areas...
I think best case scenario it's a recipe for an underwhelming experience.
Worst case is uhhh... Pretty bad. -
@wollman
To be honest, I have always really worried about exchanging students to rural areas...
I think best case scenario it's a recipe for an underwhelming experience.
Worst case is uhhh... Pretty bad.@dnavinci I think my parents looked a bit askance at sending me to live with a childless couple, but of course they were thousands of miles away and the only other option was to send me back home (and forfeit the exchange agency's fee, which IIRC was comparable to private-school tuition at the time). So two interesting months in Turku and then eight rather less pleasant months in an isolated lakefront house in rural north Savonia.
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@mrundkvist fascinating! Can you share links where we can learn more about this?
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I'm curious if there's a connection between this and the Hittites' emigration from Europe...
@ohir
They aren't identifiable until 1000 years after the Corded Ware expansion. But since they spoke Indo-European, they probably had the same steppe ancestry. I'm not aware of the Hittites originating from west of the Bosphorus? -
@paul @datarama @raymaccarthy @mrundkvist um, wild, but at least you seem to be making the argument that "white people" not as well adapted for survival as people from patriarchal countries (whatever that means).
@Iwillyeah@mastodon.ie @datarama@hachyderm.io @raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie @mrundkvist@archaeo.social "Patriarchal" in Russian means a traditional family, where the man is the head and the woman's primary role is to be a good wife and mother. Experience shows that only such families and peoples survive and leave sufficient offspring.
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@jk @NatureMC @mrundkvist it seems the Black plague may have ended by people developing strong immune responses to the disease…
@tokeriis @NatureMC @mrundkvist
Possible, but not yet scientific consensus. The paper got a critical reply and the authors wrote a rebuttal to that reply.
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@Iwillyeah@mastodon.ie @datarama@hachyderm.io @raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie @mrundkvist@archaeo.social "Patriarchal" in Russian means a traditional family, where the man is the head and the woman's primary role is to be a good wife and mother. Experience shows that only such families and peoples survive and leave sufficient offspring.
@paul @datarama @raymaccarthy @mrundkvist I am so relieved to hear I don't live in a patriarchal society anymore. Or at least I would be, if my children and I weren't dead
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@mrundkvist many thanks!
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@paul @datarama @raymaccarthy @mrundkvist I am so relieved to hear I don't live in a patriarchal society anymore. Or at least I would be, if my children and I weren't dead
@Iwillyeah@mastodon.ie @datarama@hachyderm.io @raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie @mrundkvist@archaeo.social The problem is that what you call ‘life’ isn’t really life. Life means development — and for that, a family needs to have and raise enough children (at least three). That requires teamwork with clearly defined roles and responsibilities. A structured, cooperative family model.
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist Not in Sardinia, they are still 62% Early European Farmer in ancestry.
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@mrundkvist wow. What sources do you recommend read to learn more about this?
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@Iwillyeah@mastodon.ie @datarama@hachyderm.io @raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie @mrundkvist@archaeo.social The problem is that what you call ‘life’ isn’t really life. Life means development — and for that, a family needs to have and raise enough children (at least three). That requires teamwork with clearly defined roles and responsibilities. A structured, cooperative family model.
@paul @datarama @raymaccarthy @mrundkvist I'm going to ask you to reflect on the convenience of a world view that puts your demographic at the top of the pile and requires others to forgo self-determination in favour of your demographic's authority. It's telling that the minute women get choices, they choose personal quality of life over reproduction, but it's equally telling that Conservatives frame that choice as a literal existential threat.
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@paul @datarama @raymaccarthy @mrundkvist I'm going to ask you to reflect on the convenience of a world view that puts your demographic at the top of the pile and requires others to forgo self-determination in favour of your demographic's authority. It's telling that the minute women get choices, they choose personal quality of life over reproduction, but it's equally telling that Conservatives frame that choice as a literal existential threat.
@Iwillyeah@mastodon.ie @datarama@hachyderm.io @raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie @mrundkvist@archaeo.social The core issue is that prioritizing short‑term personal comfort over long‑term family formation has real demographic consequences. When a society consistently under‑reproduces, it faces an existential threat — not metaphorically, but mathematically. This isn’t about putting any group ‘on top’; it’s about the basic requirements for a society to survive and develop.
