Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
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@mttaggart yes wassup
@mttaggart in fact last time i went to my local hackerspace i spent the whole time talking to my buddy about not vibe-coded programming languages!
check out carp lang
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@mttaggart I actually need recs for a .NET Framework OOP class. I never understood OOP then went and learned C and functional Python instead. But I have A Project in mind and OOP would be much more helpful.
@mttaggart also the tool I’ve been working on recently, Gaia is all hand crafted with love. First public tool, so learned a lot.
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@sylvie @mttaggart this just in: no starch press is now using starch
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@sylvie Oh no! When did that happen? @mttaggart
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@mttaggart also the tool I’ve been working on recently, Gaia is all hand crafted with love. First public tool, so learned a lot.
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@mttaggart I have a handful of projects I want to start on but am stuck at the “which frameworks do I use?” and “how do I even set them up?” phase.
Even for simple work-related hacks. “Just point Claude at it.” Happy to (just to get past the boilerplate stage), but even that doesn’t answer all the questions I have.
Nor does it fill me with confidence that I won’t be stuck woth stupid architectural decisions I’ll have to work around.
My mind is full of algorithms and features. I got nowhere to put em.
@darthnull @mttaggart if it's an interactive sort of thing claude is gonna shunt you to gosh awful python + fastapi or daft node + express and (for either) bloated react + tailwind on the front * you'll regret both decisions at some point.
Tailwind lost so much revenue due to the LLMs that they're down to (I think) 1 full timer. I fear webawesome won't be around much longer. Svelte folks are also feeling it.
This is all by design too, and since LLMs cannot innovate, this is permahades tech.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart yea
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@darthnull @mttaggart if it's an interactive sort of thing claude is gonna shunt you to gosh awful python + fastapi or daft node + express and (for either) bloated react + tailwind on the front * you'll regret both decisions at some point.
Tailwind lost so much revenue due to the LLMs that they're down to (I think) 1 full timer. I fear webawesome won't be around much longer. Svelte folks are also feeling it.
This is all by design too, and since LLMs cannot innovate, this is permahades tech.
@darthnull @mttaggart oh, & since i mentioned tailwind, i will take an opportunity for an "old man yells at cloud" rant.
i used a non-ai generated Astro blog theme for one of my sites and realized too late it relies on tailwind.
tdy, i finally carved out the 20-30 human minutes today to figure out which daft tailwind idiom was breaking <td align="right"> on my tables (the cascade is different depending on context). i'm gonna strip it down to just basic CSS in the next available hacking slot.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart @darthnull Yes! Just harder to find these days, in all the noise. I’m currently learning forth.
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@darthnull @mttaggart oh, & since i mentioned tailwind, i will take an opportunity for an "old man yells at cloud" rant.
i used a non-ai generated Astro blog theme for one of my sites and realized too late it relies on tailwind.
tdy, i finally carved out the 20-30 human minutes today to figure out which daft tailwind idiom was breaking <td align="right"> on my tables (the cascade is different depending on context). i'm gonna strip it down to just basic CSS in the next available hacking slot.
@hrbrmstr @darthnull Hell yeah. I've always really disliked the Tailwind approach. I'm the rare duck that prefers writing my own CSS.
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@hrbrmstr @darthnull Hell yeah. I've always really disliked the Tailwind approach. I'm the rare duck that prefers writing my own CSS.
@mttaggart @hrbrmstr Even a brief look at most sites’ CSS can be terrifying. So much bloat. It’s amazing anything works at all.
Sometimes I miss the simplicity of H1-H6 and OL and all that. An occasional HR. Just plain old structured documents.
They have played us for absolute fools….
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@mttaggart @hrbrmstr Even a brief look at most sites’ CSS can be terrifying. So much bloat. It’s amazing anything works at all.
Sometimes I miss the simplicity of H1-H6 and OL and all that. An occasional HR. Just plain old structured documents.
They have played us for absolute fools….
@darthnull @mttaggart they'll pry <center></center> from my cold, dead typing hands.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart I remember the web pages .... what was the name of the program? "Front Page" ? would make.
I hope there's room for secret nerd clubs to do it. -
@mttaggart I have a handful of projects I want to start on but am stuck at the “which frameworks do I use?” and “how do I even set them up?” phase.
Even for simple work-related hacks. “Just point Claude at it.” Happy to (just to get past the boilerplate stage), but even that doesn’t answer all the questions I have.
Nor does it fill me with confidence that I won’t be stuck woth stupid architectural decisions I’ll have to work around.
My mind is full of algorithms and features. I got nowhere to put em.
@darthnull @mttaggart Do your projects even need frameworks?
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart@infosec.exchange been doing it for decades, don't see a reason to stop now tbh
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart hell yeah. Been learning a bit of Rust for quite some time. It's hard/unusual for me and I hardly have time, but I'll continue my baby steps.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart Still very much prefer learning by hand here. It's been ages but I did like the "Learn Python the Hard Way" approach. Tying the motor patterns of typing the words felt helpful at the time, even though I feel like swapping between Python and JS regularly has me forgetting either's syntax more often than I'd like...
And it's still on my list to give Rust a proper go once I have the cycles for it.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart I’m still poking at the keyboard. Eyes are getting a little tired of extremely verbose reviews though.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart That's how I've been learning Rust and Go. It's the most effective way for me to wrap my brain around the concepts
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart @drwho I been learning zig as an antidote to the llm stuff I have to do for work.
