Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?

[hrbrmstr@mastodon.social]

@darthnull @mttaggart if it's an interactive sort of thing claude is gonna shunt you to gosh awful python + fastapi or daft node + express and (for either) bloated react + tailwind on the front * you'll regret both decisions at some point.

Tailwind lost so much revenue due to the LLMs that they're down to (I think) 1 full timer. I fear webawesome won't be around much longer. Svelte folks are also feeling it.

This is all by design too, and since LLMs cannot innovate, this is permahades tech.

[camless@m.ai6yr.org]

@mttaggart yea

[hrbrmstr@mastodon.social]

@darthnull @mttaggart oh, & since i mentioned tailwind, i will take an opportunity for an "old man yells at cloud" rant.

i used a non-ai generated Astro blog theme for one of my sites and realized too late it relies on tailwind.

tdy, i finally carved out the 20-30 human minutes today to figure out which daft tailwind idiom was breaking <td align="right"> on my tables (the cascade is different depending on context). i'm gonna strip it down to just basic CSS in the next available hacking slot.

[a@pdx.social]

@mttaggart @darthnull Yes! Just harder to find these days, in all the noise. I’m currently learning forth.

[mttaggart@infosec.exchange]

@hrbrmstr @darthnull Hell yeah. I've always really disliked the Tailwind approach. I'm the rare duck that prefers writing my own CSS.

[darthnull@infosec.exchange]

@mttaggart @hrbrmstr Even a brief look at most sites’ CSS can be terrifying. So much bloat. It’s amazing anything works at all.

Sometimes I miss the simplicity of H1-H6 and OL and all that. An occasional HR. Just plain old structured documents.

They have played us for absolute fools….

[hrbrmstr@mastodon.social]

@darthnull @mttaggart they'll pry <center></center> from my cold, dead typing hands.

[geonz@mathstodon.xyz]

@mttaggart I remember the web pages .... what was the name of the program? "Front Page" ? would make.
I hope there's room for secret nerd clubs to do it.

[drwho@masto.hackers.town]

@darthnull @mttaggart Do your projects even need frameworks?

[froge@social.glitched.systems]

@mttaggart@infosec.exchange been doing it for decades, don't see a reason to stop now tbh

[grob@mstdn.social]

@mttaggart hell yeah. Been learning a bit of Rust for quite some time. It's hard/unusual for me and I hardly have time, but I'll continue my baby steps.

[ninceur@corteximplant.com]

@mttaggart Still very much prefer learning by hand here. It's been ages but I did like the "Learn Python the Hard Way" approach. Tying the motor patterns of typing the words felt helpful at the time, even though I feel like swapping between Python and JS regularly has me forgetting either's syntax more often than I'd like...

And it's still on my list to give Rust a proper go once I have the cycles for it.

[pwloftus@pwl.farted.net]

@mttaggart I’m still poking at the keyboard. Eyes are getting a little tired of extremely verbose reviews though.

[stevenqurkel@infosec.exchange]

@mttaggart That's how I've been learning Rust and Go. It's the most effective way for me to wrap my brain around the concepts

[donaldball@triangletoot.party]

@mttaggart @drwho I been learning zig as an antidote to the llm stuff I have to do for work.

[mttaggart@infosec.exchange]

@donaldball @drwho I think I need to get on the Zig train

[catsalad@infosec.exchange]

@mttaggart We program by around here

[donaldball@triangletoot.party]

@mttaggart @drwho I don’t like all of the design choices, but I deeply respect the principled thought that seems to have gone into them.

[cafou@raru.re]

@mttaggart

I do

[tiff@hachyderm.io]

@mttaggart me. Always me