Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
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@mttaggart I have a handful of projects I want to start on but am stuck at the “which frameworks do I use?” and “how do I even set them up?” phase.
Even for simple work-related hacks. “Just point Claude at it.” Happy to (just to get past the boilerplate stage), but even that doesn’t answer all the questions I have.
Nor does it fill me with confidence that I won’t be stuck woth stupid architectural decisions I’ll have to work around.
My mind is full of algorithms and features. I got nowhere to put em.
@darthnull @mttaggart Do your projects even need frameworks?
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart@infosec.exchange been doing it for decades, don't see a reason to stop now tbh
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart hell yeah. Been learning a bit of Rust for quite some time. It's hard/unusual for me and I hardly have time, but I'll continue my baby steps.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart Still very much prefer learning by hand here. It's been ages but I did like the "Learn Python the Hard Way" approach. Tying the motor patterns of typing the words felt helpful at the time, even though I feel like swapping between Python and JS regularly has me forgetting either's syntax more often than I'd like...
And it's still on my list to give Rust a proper go once I have the cycles for it.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart I’m still poking at the keyboard. Eyes are getting a little tired of extremely verbose reviews though.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart That's how I've been learning Rust and Go. It's the most effective way for me to wrap my brain around the concepts
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart @drwho I been learning zig as an antidote to the llm stuff I have to do for work.
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@mttaggart @drwho I been learning zig as an antidote to the llm stuff I have to do for work.
@donaldball @drwho I think I need to get on the Zig train
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart We program by
around here -
@donaldball @drwho I think I need to get on the Zig train
@mttaggart @drwho I don’t like all of the design choices, but I deeply respect the principled thought that seems to have gone into them.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
I do
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart me. Always me
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart
I do, but I do not currently have the time and energy to dedicate myself to it as I would need to.When I've gotten enough things off of my plate, I wish to learn. I can't be any worse than Claude.
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart You're only a programmer if you program by hand so anyone who wants to be a programmer is the answer to your question
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart Yes.
Using LLMs to write code feels like using Google translate to have a conversation with a tribal elder. Sure, a lot of words are being said, but I don't feel like I've understood much, and quite frankly I'm insulting everyone around me.
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@donaldball @drwho I think I need to get on the Zig train
@mttaggart @donaldball So... We should move all Zig?
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Is there anybody out there who still wants to learn programming by hand?
@mttaggart Learning to program is learning a new way of thinking. I don’t know of any other mind skill that can do it all: Detail orientation. Clarity. Problem solving. Procedures. Functions. Communication. Timing. Simplification. Experimentation. Testing. So much more …but above all, logical thinking. We should teach it in first grade.
You program with your mind, not your hands.
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@mttaggart Learning to program is learning a new way of thinking. I don’t know of any other mind skill that can do it all: Detail orientation. Clarity. Problem solving. Procedures. Functions. Communication. Timing. Simplification. Experimentation. Testing. So much more …but above all, logical thinking. We should teach it in first grade.
You program with your mind, not your hands.
@meltedcheese I did.
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@mttaggart Learning to program is learning a new way of thinking. I don’t know of any other mind skill that can do it all: Detail orientation. Clarity. Problem solving. Procedures. Functions. Communication. Timing. Simplification. Experimentation. Testing. So much more …but above all, logical thinking. We should teach it in first grade.
You program with your mind, not your hands.
@meltedcheese @mttaggart Maths is similar, though not the kind of maths we teach in first grade.
Analysing language might be similar, but again, not the way it's generally taught in school...
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@mttaggart @hrbrmstr Even a brief look at most sites’ CSS can be terrifying. So much bloat. It’s amazing anything works at all.
Sometimes I miss the simplicity of H1-H6 and OL and all that. An occasional HR. Just plain old structured documents.
They have played us for absolute fools….
@darthnull @mttaggart @hrbrmstr Learning markup languages and configs is not programming. Writing the HTML compiler is programming.
