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  3. If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for.

If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for.

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  • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

    @evacide One thing that struck me: for expert work in this sort of case, $475/hr is basically what you'd pay for an entry level expert (e.g., not someone with actual trial testimony experience). This is almost certainly not someone with a lot of experience, and it sounds like he's not going to have many opportunities to get more in the future.

    adamshostack@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
    adamshostack@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
    adamshostack@infosec.exchange
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #7

    @mattblaze @evacide

    "As an expert witness preparing for deposition, if someone asks me to agree to a number, should I answer "if you say so"?"

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

      If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

      https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

      A This user is from outside of this forum
      A This user is from outside of this forum
      agreeable_landfall@mastodon.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #8

      @evacide I like the report of a lawyer who was found using an LLM, which relied on non-existent cases. The judge ordered him to a "show cause" hearing, for which he submitted...another filing written by his LLM.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

        If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

        https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

        epicdemiologist@wandering.shopE This user is from outside of this forum
        epicdemiologist@wandering.shopE This user is from outside of this forum
        epicdemiologist@wandering.shop
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #9

        @evacide Less unwieldy link to the USCSB video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFVUSDzHL8A

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

          If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

          https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

          tayyabsec@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
          tayyabsec@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
          tayyabsec@mastodon.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #10

          @evacide Relying on generative AI for expert reports poses significant risks to chain of custody and traceability, not to mention the danger of factual hallucinations. An expert's duty is independent, verifiable analysis, which cannot be substituted by algorithms lacking true understanding and provenance.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

            @evacide No one in high-stakes litigation wants a discount expert.

            stevebellovin@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
            stevebellovin@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
            stevebellovin@infosec.exchange
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #11

            @mattblaze @evacide Oh, I once encountered one on the other side of a case I was involved in. His credentials alone were minimal, but he apparently knew how to forge evidence. At least, I couldn't come up with any other explanation for his report…

            mattblaze@federate.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • stevebellovin@infosec.exchangeS stevebellovin@infosec.exchange

              @mattblaze @evacide Oh, I once encountered one on the other side of a case I was involved in. His credentials alone were minimal, but he apparently knew how to forge evidence. At least, I couldn't come up with any other explanation for his report…

              mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mattblaze@federate.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #12

              @SteveBellovin @evacide I hope he charged accordingly for such specialized services!

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                niall@mastodon.nzN This user is from outside of this forum
                niall@mastodon.nzN This user is from outside of this forum
                niall@mastodon.nz
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #13

                @evacide FFS

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                  If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                  https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                  darryl_ramm@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                  darryl_ramm@hachyderm.ioD This user is from outside of this forum
                  darryl_ramm@hachyderm.io
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #14

                  @evacide

                  KnightHawk Engineering, all parrot no hawk.

                  sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.ioS 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • barubary@infosec.exchangeB This user is from outside of this forum
                    barubary@infosec.exchangeB This user is from outside of this forum
                    barubary@infosec.exchange
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #15

                    @phaedral @evacide Found this in a header:

                    REPORTER'S RECORD
                    TRIAL COURT CAUSE NO. 2020-05505-A

                    KARYN LAAKE, INDIVIDUALLY
                    AND AS REPRESENTATIVE OF
                    THE ESTATE OF CATHERINE
                    LAAKE, DECEASED,
                    et al.

                    vs.

                    3M COMPANY

                    IN THE DISTRICT COURT
                    HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
                    11TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT

                    Is that what you're looking for?

                    phaedral@beige.partyP 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • barubary@infosec.exchangeB barubary@infosec.exchange

                      @phaedral @evacide Found this in a header:

                      REPORTER'S RECORD
                      TRIAL COURT CAUSE NO. 2020-05505-A

                      KARYN LAAKE, INDIVIDUALLY
                      AND AS REPRESENTATIVE OF
                      THE ESTATE OF CATHERINE
                      LAAKE, DECEASED,
                      et al.

                      vs.

                      3M COMPANY

                      IN THE DISTRICT COURT
                      HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
                      11TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT

                      Is that what you're looking for?

                      phaedral@beige.partyP This user is from outside of this forum
                      phaedral@beige.partyP This user is from outside of this forum
                      phaedral@beige.party
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #16

                      @barubary @evacide Thank you, that should do.me!

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                        If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                        https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                        I This user is from outside of this forum
                        isol@mastodon.au
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #17

                        @evacide

                        How long before someone is exposed as using AI to present themselves as an expert witness in detecting AI use in expert testimony? 🤪

                        pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • I isol@mastodon.au

                          @evacide

                          How long before someone is exposed as using AI to present themselves as an expert witness in detecting AI use in expert testimony? 🤪

                          pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP This user is from outside of this forum
                          pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP This user is from outside of this forum
                          pseudonym@mastodon.online
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #18

                          @isol @evacide

                          Takes one to know one, amirite?

                          (No, he was not right)

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                            If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                            https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                            worik@mastodon.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                            worik@mastodon.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                            worik@mastodon.social
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #19

                            @evacide That is really interesting

                            I read to the end, and changed my opinion as I did

                            The use of Gen AI was not unreasonable IMO so long as the "expert" is expert and stands behind the conclusion.

                            Writing these it is important to disclose the use of gen AI and be transparent with your process.

                            Using gen AI to search, collate and organize information is reasonable for an expert in the field

                            A non expert can be exposed with examination and gen AI will not help hide ignorance for long

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • evacide@hachyderm.ioE This user is from outside of this forum
                              evacide@hachyderm.ioE This user is from outside of this forum
                              evacide@hachyderm.io
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #20

                              @Cassandra_Complex That is not at all what this story is about.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                dukeduke@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                dukeduke@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                dukeduke@mastodon.social
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #21

                                @evacide "...and how my background and experience is well suited to render this professional opinion.”

                                Except that it's CrapGPT's opinion, not yours, ya ham-brained bastard! 🙄

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • darryl_ramm@hachyderm.ioD darryl_ramm@hachyderm.io

                                  @evacide

                                  KnightHawk Engineering, all parrot no hawk.

                                  sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sillycoelophysis@hachyderm.io
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #22

                                  @darryl_ramm @evacide all night, no khawk 😂

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                    If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                    https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                    professor_stevens@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    professor_stevens@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    professor_stevens@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #23

                                    @evacide

                                    Expert witness drafts are no longer subject to discovery in US federal court.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                      If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                      https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                      penguin42@mastodon.org.ukP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      penguin42@mastodon.org.ukP This user is from outside of this forum
                                      penguin42@mastodon.org.uk
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #24

                                      @evacide I am a bit confused - what *was* the connection between 3M and Watson Grinding?

                                      tuban_muzuru@beige.partyT 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                        If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                        https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                        vxo@digipres.clubV This user is from outside of this forum
                                        vxo@digipres.clubV This user is from outside of this forum
                                        vxo@digipres.club
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #25

                                        @evacide

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • evacide@hachyderm.ioE evacide@hachyderm.io

                                          If you are an expert witness, do not use ChatGPT to write the report you are charging $475/hour for. All of your chat prompts are subpoenable and we are all going to laugh so hard.

                                          https://www.404media.co/show-how-3m-is-0-at-fault-expert-witness-used-chatgpt-to-write-report-defending-company-in-deadly-explosion-lawsuit/

                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                                          softwaretheron@mas.to
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #26

                                          @evacide
                                          If you *were* an expert witness, ...

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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