Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research.
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Celts are originally from Central Asia (last I heard anyway. I'm sure folks will let me know if there is newer news!)
@NilaJones @mrundkvist
Celts are complicated because it turns out to be more a culture (stretching from Northern Turkey to the Atlantic) than a DNA group. There connections in old names and old root words between Hindi & Irish and little connection between surviving Insular Celtic languages & Western European languages.
Romans particularly hated them (several long stories), so what Julius Caesar wrote is rather biased.
The Irish "Book of Invasions" may not be totally fiction. -
Maybe not. But the plague is a zoonotic disease, a change in the rodent population can very effectively stop a plague wave. But we don't really know why and how a plague pandemic ends.
@jk @NatureMC @mrundkvist it seems the Black plague may have ended by people developing strong immune responses to the disease…
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@mrundkvist
Do you have any recommendations for a book that includes this sort of modern info? -
@raymaccarthy
Indeed, there have been many plague epidemics. But nothing like what cut off genetic continuity in the Middle Neolithic of Scandinavia, with the arrival of the Corded Ware.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture#Genetic_studies
@mrundkvist @raymaccarthy today I learned
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
I'm curious if there's a connection between this and the Hittites' emigration from Europe...
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@datarama@hachyderm.io @raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie @mrundkvist@archaeo.social Natural selection hasn't gone away. And now "white" people are being replaced by people from countries where patriarchy still exists.
@paul @datarama @raymaccarthy @mrundkvist um, wild, but at least you seem to be making the argument that "white people" not as well adapted for survival as people from patriarchal countries (whatever that means).
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@NilaJones @mrundkvist
Celts are complicated because it turns out to be more a culture (stretching from Northern Turkey to the Atlantic) than a DNA group. There connections in old names and old root words between Hindi & Irish and little connection between surviving Insular Celtic languages & Western European languages.
Romans particularly hated them (several long stories), so what Julius Caesar wrote is rather biased.
The Irish "Book of Invasions" may not be totally fiction.I didn't know that about Hindi and Irish!
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist fascinating! Can you share links where we can learn more about this?
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Here’s a reminder about one of the most important results of the past fourteen years of ancient DNA research. Northern Europe was overrun by plague-spreading steppe nomads less than 5000 years ago, causing an almost complete population replacement.
It’s a 1492 event. Everybody knows that us Northern Europeans aren’t the original inhabitants of North America. But we aren’t even the original inhabitants of Northern Europe.
@mrundkvist and it will happen again
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@dnavinci
I have successfully travelled by land and sea to Kuopio and seen actual kalakukko being sold in the market square!!!@mrundkvist @dnavinci When I was an exchange student 37 years ago, I lived in (a place which after municipal amalgamation is now a part of) Kuopio. When I left, they gave me a big hunk of kalakukko to take on the night train down to Helsinki. It would never had occurred to me to bake whole fish into a loaf of bread before. Maybe my only good memory of that year.
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@mrundkvist @dnavinci When I was an exchange student 37 years ago, I lived in (a place which after municipal amalgamation is now a part of) Kuopio. When I left, they gave me a big hunk of kalakukko to take on the night train down to Helsinki. It would never had occurred to me to bake whole fish into a loaf of bread before. Maybe my only good memory of that year.
@wollman
I'm assuming that's Nilsiä?Something about that story worries me.
1. You were unhappy (that's obvious)
2. Taking food on the train, especially outside the dining car would be viewed as pretty rude.
Kalakukko seems like an odd parting gift because it's polarizing (like Mämmi) even to the locals.
Might have been a super polite way to be mean?Sorry for whatever happened.
@mrundkvist -
@wollman
I'm assuming that's Nilsiä?Something about that story worries me.
1. You were unhappy (that's obvious)
2. Taking food on the train, especially outside the dining car would be viewed as pretty rude.
Kalakukko seems like an odd parting gift because it's polarizing (like Mämmi) even to the locals.
Might have been a super polite way to be mean?Sorry for whatever happened.
@mrundkvist@dnavinci @mrundkvist Syvänniemi was the nearest village, at the time I believe it was part of the council of Karttula; I had to take a long rural bus trip every day to the lukio in Karttula. I lived with a childless couple in a pretty isolated house on the lake, a far cry from my first placement in Turku (one of the family members there took a disliking to me and had the agency move me). The couple both worked in Kuopio proper. The man was of Estonian ancestry.
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@dnavinci @mrundkvist Syvänniemi was the nearest village, at the time I believe it was part of the council of Karttula; I had to take a long rural bus trip every day to the lukio in Karttula. I lived with a childless couple in a pretty isolated house on the lake, a far cry from my first placement in Turku (one of the family members there took a disliking to me and had the agency move me). The couple both worked in Kuopio proper. The man was of Estonian ancestry.
@wollman
Okay, yeah, Kartula is basically republican Kuopio, so that makes sense
@mrundkvist -
@wollman
Okay, yeah, Kartula is basically republican Kuopio, so that makes sense
@mrundkvist@dnavinci When I went back to Finland in 2017 I took a day-trip to Turku. I did not (do not) feel the need to see Kuopio again. (I *am* going to Tampere next March for the figure skating, which at least I've never been to before so at least if it's a disappointment I can say I didn't know.)
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@dnavinci When I went back to Finland in 2017 I took a day-trip to Turku. I did not (do not) feel the need to see Kuopio again. (I *am* going to Tampere next March for the figure skating, which at least I've never been to before so at least if it's a disappointment I can say I didn't know.)
@wollman
To be honest, I have always really worried about exchanging students to rural areas...
I think best case scenario it's a recipe for an underwhelming experience.
Worst case is uhhh... Pretty bad. -
@wollman
To be honest, I have always really worried about exchanging students to rural areas...
I think best case scenario it's a recipe for an underwhelming experience.
Worst case is uhhh... Pretty bad.@dnavinci I think my parents looked a bit askance at sending me to live with a childless couple, but of course they were thousands of miles away and the only other option was to send me back home (and forfeit the exchange agency's fee, which IIRC was comparable to private-school tuition at the time). So two interesting months in Turku and then eight rather less pleasant months in an isolated lakefront house in rural north Savonia.
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@mrundkvist fascinating! Can you share links where we can learn more about this?
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I'm curious if there's a connection between this and the Hittites' emigration from Europe...
@ohir
They aren't identifiable until 1000 years after the Corded Ware expansion. But since they spoke Indo-European, they probably had the same steppe ancestry. I'm not aware of the Hittites originating from west of the Bosphorus? -
@paul @datarama @raymaccarthy @mrundkvist um, wild, but at least you seem to be making the argument that "white people" not as well adapted for survival as people from patriarchal countries (whatever that means).
@Iwillyeah@mastodon.ie @datarama@hachyderm.io @raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie @mrundkvist@archaeo.social "Patriarchal" in Russian means a traditional family, where the man is the head and the woman's primary role is to be a good wife and mother. Experience shows that only such families and peoples survive and leave sufficient offspring.
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@jk @NatureMC @mrundkvist it seems the Black plague may have ended by people developing strong immune responses to the disease…
@tokeriis @NatureMC @mrundkvist
Possible, but not yet scientific consensus. The paper got a critical reply and the authors wrote a rebuttal to that reply.
