@beeoproblem @glyph I encountered Rails after WebObjects and my impression was that it was a slow reimplementation of WebObjects with a much worse developer experience. Steve Jobs’ keynote where he introduced WebObjects and the Enterprise Object Framework had a demo that was basically the same as the first learn Rails example and it required about half as much code, eight years before Rails was released.But everything I read from the Rails people talked as if they’d invented all of these ideas and not just made a slow and bad clone of an existing product.I largely ignored Ruby and Rails as a result, my only experience with the rest of the adjacent Ruby ecosystem was that they kept claiming to have invented things that Smalltalk had been doing for 20 years before the Ruby people encountered the ideas, in a language whose implementation somehow managed to be slower than the slowest Smalltalk implementation.